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Re:Is Tableau Dead? by MissTake on Monday February 26, 2024 @09:56PM (#39519625)
Our renewal got Shanghaied by an extremely greedy and over zealous sales rep who injected himself between us and our renewals reps, and wanted to turn a sub $80k renewal into damn near $200k this year and $300k next.

Needless to say it got nowhere fast and, by the time he gave up and threw us “back” to renewals, the damage had been done.

We elected to do what they thought was unthinkable and we just walked away.

My oh my, it was very, very good day, when I got to tell them to go f themselves.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by leetrout on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @01:10AM (#39520682)
This is about to be us with Heroku.

Feels like software sales has just gotten worse for years now.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by CSMastermind on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @03:15AM (#39521475)
Heroku is one of those things that if someone tells me their still on it without a plan to migrate I question the executive leadership at their company.

Shade of its former self, expensive, and there are plenty of better options. Really seems like the company is in zombie mode until it's eventual slow demise.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by plufz on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @04:00AM (#39521788)
I haven’t used Heroku in a long time but I really liked the feeling of starting up a database and a container for the app with two clicks. Which are the main alternatives in that space today?
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by bantunes on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @04:12AM (#39521880)
Fly.io maybe?
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by mmaia on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @06:37AM (#39522868)
The best alternative I found is render.com

It has this feeling of "just works", and documentation is pretty good.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by realusername on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:10AM (#39524284)
I just use Dokku on a VPS and it works fine.

Sure it might not scale but Heroku didn't either.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by PanMan on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @05:29AM (#39522421)
I agree.. but I'm surprised how little Heroku alternatives have popped up yet.. There is new contestants, mostly focussed on more global deploys, but no "Heroku but maintained" that I know of.. yet.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by infecto on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @07:34AM (#39523275)
I am not surprised. There are a handful of competitors but I believe the ship has sailed. I am a complete AWS dunce but it's too easy for me to spin up an ECS with spot machines and run my python app on it. When Heroku hit the scene and for many years, there was no easy alternative. You had to go and provision your own machines to then setup.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by DanielHB on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:17AM (#39524373)
Is it just me or ECS is relatively complicated? I mean, it is no k8, but still you need to set up a lot of stuff to get it to work.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by dkersten on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @10:03AM (#39524917)
I actually gave up on AWS forever when trying to use ECS. It was incredibly complex and it kept failing to deploy, but cloudeatch only contained log entries for it about 20% of the time. All I could do was click redeploy over and over — sometimes there were logs, usually not. And they charged me for every single deploy. After a day and a $100 bill later, I gave up and used DigitalOcean’s hosted docker instead. I had it up she’d rubbing in under ten minutes and no bill other than the actual usage costs.

Now I avoid AWS as much as I can. Of course my employers tend to be on AWS so sadly I can’t completely avoid it, but I do my best and would never recommend it anymore.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by infecto on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @10:13AM (#39525036)
Strange, maybe billing was different when you used it. ECS only charges for usage, you must have been requesting a lot of resources to rack up a cost that quickly. For example Ohio spot pricing is $0.01260298/hour/cpu. Deploying costs nothing.

It is a tool like any other and it is not as simple as DO's but its also a lot cheaper and more powerful once you learn the tooling. The logging on deployment is true but I think the majority/all issues I have seen with that is when the image is not configured correctly and cannot run when testing locally.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by dkersten on Sunday March 03, 2024 @05:59AM (#39580060)
It was a problem on my end causing it, yes, but the point was that AWS deployment logs were next to useless as they didn’t even show the majority of times. On digitalocean, I got logs every time and after four or five deploy attempts had it narrowed down enough to fix my problem and get it working. All without a bill.

I don’t remember what I was charged for, I assumed it was because it was counting the few seconds of running time at the minimum billed time each time I deployed, but I’m unsure. This was in 2020. All I know is that I had a reasonably simple setup, there was an issue where it wouldn’t successfully start up, but logging was flaky at best and I was charged for my attempts.

I’ve been using AWS for years, at various employers and my own last startups, and it’s far more complex than many of its competitors. That’s ok when you need all of its features, but if you need just one or two, then the complexity gets in the way.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by infecto on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @10:07AM (#39524961)
I think it took me maybe a 1/2 day to grok the majority of it and get a build pipeline setup. Most of that time to be honest was getting the permissions correct between the build pipeline components. I used to feel the same but found it to be not that true once using it.

Github Action (Build Docker Image) > Push Image to AWS ECR for image storage > Kick off Deploy of ECS.

You can configure your ECS cluster using the console UI or something like Terraform. Once configured its set it and forget it.

Honestly not that much more complicated compared to Heroku.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by DanielHB on Wednesday February 28, 2024 @03:43AM (#39535541)
I haven't used Heroku in ages, but I remember it being pretty easy.

Just wondering how do you "Kick off deploy of ECS" services? The solution I have currently is using:

aws ecs update-service --cluster={ CLUSTER_NAME } --service={ SERVICE_NAME } --no-cli-pager --force-new-deployment

aws ecs wait services-stable --cluster={ CLUSTER_NAME } --service={ SERVICE_NAME }

From my CI, but this doesn't feel like the best way to do it

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by infecto on Wednesday February 28, 2024 @08:07AM (#39537341)
Without a doubt Heroku is ultimately easier but I found that once I spent the time playing with ECS and using LLM tools to understand permissions in AWS it made a lot more sense. Now its quick enough and cheaper for me.

I don't think the way you are doing it is the worst way. I am biggest expert here of course. I do mine via a github action, right now it triggers on merges to main but could also be setup independently.

Condensed but I use 1) "build-push-action" - github action to send an image to ECR 2) "aws ecs update-service --cluster <name> --service <service> --force-new-deployment" for the deployment

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by MobileVet on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @07:22AM (#39523189)
We did a bake off 18 months ago and identified ~5 similar platforms at the time. Fly.io and Render were 2 of them.

We chose Render and have been happy with things just chugging along as they were on Heroku.

Their runtime seems to take up quite a bit more RAM, but the IAC is a great addition resulting in 100% consistent environments.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by sergiotapia on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @07:54AM (#39523461)
There's a ton, sharing in case you've never seen them.

In a linear graph from "Heroku" to "VPS do-it-yourself":

     |------------------------------------------------------------|
    Heroku    Render     Railway     NorthFlank    Fly      DigitalOcean
That's how I would place them from easiest to hardest. Of course DigitalOcean is not a PaaS but bear with me.

I use Render for https://www.gamedrop.gg/ and it works really well for me, very hands off.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by aitchnyu on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:08AM (#39524264)
Which are the players between Northflank/Fly and DO and work with Python? For example AlwaysData allows you to SSH and inspect your stuff and has managed DBs and backups.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by d_sc on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:48AM (#39524748)
beautiful graph
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by PanMan on Thursday February 29, 2024 @10:19AM (#39550492)
Thanks for the graph, but I'm looking for others that are "as far left" as heroku - eg offer db stuff (like elements), review apps, etc. I haven't seen that yet, but will take another look at Render!
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by te_chris on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @06:26AM (#39522792)
I'm working with a company who are very happy on it currently. It still works really well for them, they're ok with the cost relative to the rest of their costs.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by swat535 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @11:30AM (#39526026)
What better alternatives are there?

I saw Fly.io and it doesn't even offer a managed database, not to mention the fact that they have had serious reliability issues.

Heroku is pretty battle tested and mature at this point, though the feature development has stopped, I don't doubt Salesforce is now going to use it simply as a the "cloud" offering for their other products..

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by calciphus on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @01:12AM (#39520690)
Just Salesforce.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by MobileVet on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @07:23AM (#39523208)
I would encourage you to find the exit ASAP from Heroku… we saw continual degradation of service and uptime during our last 2 years there.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by CobrastanJorji on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @01:41AM (#39520837)
One can safely assume Salesforce has very well made internal Tableau visualizations of Salepserson performance. That sort of failure would almost certainly show up with crisp drop shadows.

It is a shame, however, that the behavior of the sales rep probably made the renewals rep's chart look bad if not worse.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by rndmswethrwawy on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @03:19AM (#39521493)
They could have, but I can promise you that if they have Tableau visualizations _at all_ at this point, they're shit.

Letting something "die on the vine" is the only way to describe Salesforce's Tableau acquisition.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by blitzar on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @05:15AM (#39522341)
> the behavior of the sales rep

probably made the sales rep chart for "outreach activity" tick up

and the renewals rep's chart was fired because they didnt hit their target

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by toyg on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @05:20AM (#39522378)
> One can safely assume Salesforce has very well made internal Tableau visualizations of Salesperson performance.

I can't decide whether this statement is ironic or not. Salesforce is just another big company, with committees and meetings and crisp charts that exist only to show numbers going up, not to actually identify anything as boring as actual operational performance.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by justin66 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @07:43AM (#39523358)
> It is a shame, however, that the behavior of the sales rep probably made the renewals rep's chart look bad if not worse.

Is the fate of commissioned salespeople to be eaten by other commissioned salespeople.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by jncfhnb on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:51AM (#39524083)
Sales teams often punish reps for many things out of their control. It’s pretty dumb.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by stuckkeys on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @04:45AM (#39522113)
Just out curiosity, what did you end up replacing it with? Looking to shop for a client. They were hyped on Tableau.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by prometheus76 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:16AM (#39523679)
We're a Power BI house with eight companies in a holding company. Power BI also has a high-security option, which is essential for us for security compliance requirements on our government contracts. We also have a blanket license so everyone can see the dashboards, and we're about to upgrade to Premium company-wide.

It took some time for me to switch from Excel paradigm to Power BI paradigm, but once it clicked, I've never looked back.

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by marcinzm on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @06:32AM (#39522839)
Depending on the use cases PowerBI and Looker.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by topicseed on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @05:58AM (#39522593)
Superset works wonders
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by mathattack on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:10AM (#39524291)
The Salesforce reps just couldn’t help themselves. Too much Oracle in their DNA. Ruined the customer relationship, and encouraged the move to Microsoft and their “free” alternative.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by scrapcode on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:16AM (#39524356)
I'm in the enterprise procurement world and it's mind-boggling to me how many software companies in the past two years have forced themselves to $0 revenue from us by trying to double (or more!) their already exorbitant prices.
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by anon84873628 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:27AM (#39524483)
Is this greed, or a struggle for them to survive?
Re:Is Tableau Dead? by cutemonster on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:39AM (#39524648)
It's sometimes a good move and I've seen it recommended here at HN pretty often I think. look:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16477003

"I've now 4X'd my pricing (from 3 figures to 4 figures a month!) and the customers got 10X better, complain less, I work less and earn more"

Re:Is Tableau Dead? by scrapcode on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @10:50PM (#39533751)
With certain requirements from large corporations switching from usage or license-based pricing to models such as charging per employee in the overall organization, it's hard to imagine it doesn't involve a little greed. It makes the choice even easier when clear alternatives are much more economical.

Imagine for example you're a small shop with your own budget in an org the size of Alphabet with a couple of Java servers that you purchase support to the tune of $5k/year and then they all of a sudden want to charge $1,000,000/month because there are ~200k employees within your larger organization.

It gets even more convoluted when you get into hardware support, where the support itself outside of warranty can be more expensive annually than replacing the hardware and getting N years of support with warranty.