> BYD is the primary battery supplier for most consumer electronics (you're iPhone or Macbook is using a BYD battery for example)

Hey, do you have a source for this? I am trying to find this information online but I am failing to find, but it sounds super plausible. In their own website there's not much information other than their batteries are used in other things besides cars - link to the site below

https://www.bydglobal.com/cn/en/BYD_ENProductAndSolutions/Ne...

Apple's Supplier list from FY22 - https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supp...

Amazing! Thank you! Pretty cool information!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Company

Somehow it wasn't in theit Wikipedia either - it mentions briefly something about batteries for common electronics but doesn't details or mentioned Apple. Anyway, thanks for the source!!!

Np.

Most Chinese corporate information isn't going to be found on English Wikipedia tbh.

It's an insular industry and most OEMs and VARs are Taiwanese, Chinese, Singaporean, Thai, or Malaysian so Mandarin is the preferred language as they're all owned by the SEA Chinese diaspora

what’s the best data source?

Idk.

I've grown up reading business news/trade news in the tech industry since I was a kid, my dad was in the industry, and I am as well, so all these names are common to me.

All I can say is any long read business news you see in NYT or WSJ is 3-5 year behind trends.

If it made it to either, it's already at the 4th-5th part of the Gartner Hype Cycle (which itself deserves a hype cycle)

What information sources would you recommend for the industry?

Same. I thought that I was avoiding bubble as much possible. It seems that I am living in a special bubble.

> any long read business news you see in NYT or WSJ is 3-5 year behind trends

That bad?

Sounds like a business opportunity ...

Already solved by trade papers, Reuters, Axios, etc

Ah, ok, thought you meant other sources.

Yep, right, mainstream press is always behind. Then the TV guys bring up the rear ...

> Mandarin is the preferred language as they're all owned by the SEA Chinese diaspora

Wouldn't the SEA Chinese diaspora be more likely to speak Hokkien? Or maybe Cantonese?

No, there are so many dialects (Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Hokchew, Hakka, Hainanese, ...) that are so unevenly distributed that Mandarin is the lingua franca. Eg. Singapore was mostly Hokkien back in the day, but decades of government policy has taught Mandarin to basically all Chinese there and younger folks know dialect poorly if at all.

They speak many different languages at home, but they all do business in Mandarin.

Wait. The list is only for listing supplier of Apple products. Why do you know "BYD is the primary battery supplier for most consumer electronics (you're iPhone or Macbook is using a BYD battery for example)."?

The Apple's supply chain is very complex, and we don't know the exact number of supply percentage, do we?

I can't remember where but I have read that "one in six mobile phone batteries around the world are manufactured by BYD"

I heard on the grapevine that 60% of a US "Tesla gigafactory" is actually a Panasonic battery factory. The battery vertical is definitely a critical part of this story.

I've heard a similar story as well. I think the US factories is partially owned by Panasonic and the Shanghai one is partially owned by CATL.

I don't think Tesla really hired any battery engineers or R&D either come to think of it.

If they did, they would have had an R&D office in Japan or SK who are leaders in Battery Chemistry but I don't think they have a presence there at all.

Most likely Tesla and Panasonic are co-sharing IP with Tesla taking a lead on Battery Management Software (a very hard problem) and Panasonic on Battery Manufacturing and Efficiency (an equally hard problem)

Tesla acquired Hibar Systems in 2019, and Siilion in 2021

That's no secret. Here's the Panasonic press release from 2014. "According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells and invest in the associated equipment, machinery, and other manufacturing tools based on their mutual approval. ... Tesla will take the cells and other components to assemble battery modules and packs."[1]

Panasonic now has another cell factory in North America, in DeSoto, Kansas. This time, Tesla is not the landlord.

A "cell" is a single unit device, and a "battery" is a group of connected cells. Panasonic makes cylindrical cells in standard dimensions. Others assemble the cells into into battery packs. Much of the rechargable battery industry works like that. Plants that make cells are mostly chemical plants, and some of the chemicals are corrosive, toxic, and flammable. Once the chemicals have been canned into a neat little metal can, assembly into packs is a routine manufacturing operation.

It's possible to make integrated batteries. Classic 12 volt lead-acid auto batteries have six cells, producing 2 volts each. BYD is heavily into integrated batteries, with their "blade" technology. There are lots of things that can go wrong in integrated battery manufacturing, but if the process can be debugged, the density is higher and the cost is probably lower.

[1] https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/en140731-3

I feel like you mixed up BYD and CATL.

Nope.

Apple and BYD had a contract dispute around 2015-17 [0] though it ended up getting dismissed by the USDCNDC, but CATL was always targeting the Power Electronics space like Siemens and Hitachi while BYD cornered the rechargeable battery market by 2010 when Berkshire Hathaway and Samsung took a minority stake in them

[0] - https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-cand-3_15-cv-04...

Profile checks out ;)

Do you have a blog?

Maybe. Maybe not.

A boy can dream, can’t he

BYD is big in the lithium ion cell and pack space for consumer electronics, but ATL (not CATL) has higher market share in most categories.