One HUGE difference is that the "crappy walmart tools" (replace with equivalent store brand like Ryobi, Craftsman, etc) are actually quite decent.

Ten+ years ago I would be quite adamant about people getting "professional" brands, now unless you really need to "buy into the red army" anything is basically fine.

It's true of quite a few products now that I think of it. There used to be "good TVs and really shit TVs" - now even the bargain crap is pretty good.

Ryobi definitely aren't a store brand ;)

Ryobi most definitely is a big box brand targeted to consumers. These are cheap tools and I challenge you to find a contactor or tradesman that uses them commercially.

Edit: https://corporate.homedepot.com/news/supplier/ryobi-supplier...

for me "store brands" is something like parkside? a "fake" brand that is only sold inside one store.

ryobi europe/us is definitely consumer focused, but not a store brand

I was under the impression they are tied to Home Depot and not available at other stores.

The tool brand stuff gets highly confusing very quickly. In the USA Ryobi is a brand manufactured for Home Depot by TTI (the same company that owns Milwaukee but it is NOT Milwaukee manufacturing for Ryobi).

Outside of the USA it's completely different. Sometimes the same brand can be nearly identical even though manufactured differently, other times they have the same name and are completely different.

Another one is Rigid - their power tools are manufactured by TTI, except for the plumbing-specific ones (sometimes) which are made by Emerson.

It's quite like hard drives are (were?) where there's only a few manufacturers but many more brands.

https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/#tti

Regardless of the manufacturer, battery technology has increased so incredibly that even the "crappiest" cordless tools are better than those from the early 2000s.

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Src: retired electrician that has used (and broken) a lot of tools

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My primary tool of choice is Stanley's upscale brand, DeWalt.

Were I considering to "buy a cheaper tool," perhaps esoteric items intended for single use: instead of Ryobi, I'd settle on Harbor Freight.

Where I spent most of my wiring days [IBEW], the "top tool" was always a competition of Yellow -vs- Red.

Man I still have some pro cordless electric screwdriver that was pretty good 20-25y ago, we used those on construction sites. You can actually still get replacement batteries (off brand) but for around 70 bucks last I checked I'm really not sure if I wanna risk that :P

Then again I've never bought one for myself and still kept this one from my dad.

One of the reasons I was leaning toward DeWalt is they seem to have a shared battery system. I don't want to have 20 different battery standards when I could just keep buying the same ones and using them all on different tools.

I have several different electric drills I received as gifts with their own batteries.

Most manufacturers share batteries of the same voltage but even DeWalt and Milwaukee have been bending that rule (there are flex volt Dewalts, and High Output M18s that have different characteristics).

Here's my "pro tip" for purchasing less-expensive 20V DeWalt batteries, although it only works at the end of autumn: around the first annual winter freeze, all the outdoor tools go on sale.

Typically outdoor tools are paired with their largest AH battery available; sometimes the pair retail for less than just a single 4AH+ battery [sometimes "half off"].

Doesn't always work out, but I do this every other year (and have multiple weed whackers lol). My last 4AH 20V Dewalt battery cost me $49 this way.

Honestly I know many tradespeople who literally don’t care and are fine using what the local HD has to offer.

Ryobi in the USA is basically a Home Depot store brand for power tools.

Also have some Ryobi stuff. Got a surprisingly affordable (under $150) package deal with a drill, impact driver, oscillating tool, reciprocating saw, flashlight, and small circular saw. Came with a charger and two battery packs.

None of these are incredible tools, but none of them have failed on me. The only thing that's died is one of the battery packs and I replaced it with a larger one since the included ones were pretty small. Pretty sure I killed it by using it with a more demanding tool not included in the package.

In retrospect, I'm thinking the cheapo deal was a way to get people like me - just bought a fixer upper house and looking to do some light-to-moderate DIY work - invested in their ecosystem. Well, it's worked. When I need other cordless tools, I get more Ryobi since they work with the same battery packs. Grinder, hand vacuum, etc. have been the same brand.

That said, I've needed higher quality tools as well, and when I got a better circular saw and a big hammer drill, I went corded and had the benefit of not worrying about battery brands. Probably should've gone corded for the grinder as well (it kills battery packs quickly).

The nature of the tool makes the corded/not corded decision easier too. The ones I mentioned (weed whacker, leaf blower, drill) are usually used when you're moving around and having to plug in and drag the chord around is a real pain in the ass.

For something like circular saw, I think that's much less of an issue. I picture that as something you set up in a spot and use for the duration of the project. So I guess I am surprised it even comes in a battery option.

The battery powered circ saw is nice because it's lightweight and easy to use for quick cuts. I've even taken it with me to rough cut stuff in the parking lot of a store so it will fit in my car.

Didn't need anything better until a few years later and bought a big beefy Milwaukee. I still use the battery powered Ryobi for 80% of stuff though, just due to convenience.

That said, I see things like battery powered table saws and have zero desire to mess with any of that.

The only real use case I can think of for battery powered table saws is for hobbyists/homeowners who do their work in the yard, or maybe in an unpowered tool shed. A lot of older homes have no outdoor power outlets.

For "pro" use on a job site, it's hard to imagine a battery powered table saw having enough power or endurance. I know my plug-in table saw seems to use at least ~1,200 watts @ 120v when cutting something tough like pressure-treated lumber, because it trips the surge protector.

But, I don't know. I see Dewalt has like a 60V powered table saw. With a big enough battery maybe it's enough to be useful for pros.

A 15A 120V wall outlet (not uncommon in the USA) can provide at most 1800W (a bit less in practice to give some headroom to avoid tripping excessively sensitive breakers). The motor wastes about half that, so you expect about 900W power output if hooking a tool up to a dynamometer. DeWalt's 60V cordless circular saw can put out over 1500W into a dynamometer[1], with similar waste (up to about 3600W max from the battery). The batteries get discharged at about 50-60A max according to the DeWalt specs I could find, which makes sense given the measured power output. Modern cordless batteries are better for actual power output than (15A) corded tools, comparable to 25A corded tools!

They're worse for run-time, of course, batteries get drained. Endurance is the issue, but battery powered tools can beat corded tools for power these days.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cjf0beYXfU

Wow, thanks for pointing that out. That's really badass.

> So I guess I am surprised it even comes in a battery option.

If you're going to a job site with limited electricity and don't know the exact cut of wood you need before arriving, I can see value. This option isn't for medium/large workloads, and isn't for the guy operating a wood working shop, but might be for a guy that does small jobs away from a shop.

Cordless tools tend to be more convenient. While a corded tool might technically be more powerful, for a quick cut it's annoying to unravel the cord, possibly grab an extension cord and unravel that, make the cut, then wind up the cables again. Vs. grab a cordless tool and maybe throw a battery in.

Cable management can also be annoying sometimes when moving around.

> I picture that as something you set up in a spot and use for the duration of the project. So I guess I am surprised it even comes in a battery option

I believe you are confusing a handheld circular saw with a miter saw. A miter saw has a base, an arm, and a blade guard; and must be placed on a flat surface/table to use it.

A circular saw is a handheld tool.

You are absolutely right, I was making exactly that mistake. THANK YOU

Doesn't matter, battery powered table saws and miter saws exist.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/2736-21HD

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Woodworki...

(some of the table saws from other brands are "duel fuel" and can take a battery or a plug, can be nice).

Battery power table saws seem a bit silly until you realize that the construction people often arrive before there's any site power at all, after all, someone has to build the site power connections.

As a note, you can get some good deals on Ryobi both on Home Depot sales, and places like: https://www.directtoolsoutlet.com/brand/ryobi

Yeah, I am pretty sure the "starter pack" was a deal they had going at the Depot. I typically avoid big packs of things (pots and pans, knives, etc) since I end up using just a subset and would rather get higher quality versions of those.

But this was a straightforward way to get a bunch of reasonable quality tools cheaply and I've honestly used all of them without any failures, so it's worked out.

Those starter packs have also gotten better, they used to be something like one brushless tool and a bunch of cheaper brushed tools - now they're often all brushless.

You can get adapters to use your battery packs with other brands of tools.

And a making a wireless tool wired should be doable from a technical standpoint.

Some modern battery tools take advantage of the battery and can (in shortish bursts) power the tool more than a standard 15 amp 120v outlet could.

I bought a tiny 12v Bosch driver when I fitted my kitchen 5 years ago, and I've used since for things like assembling flat pack furniture.

I've not charged it once since my kitchen project.

Obviously tightening knockdown fittings isn't very taxing work, but I'm still impressed every time I get it out.

For many years I had a Black and Decker hand-sized screwdriver (single speed, hex bits only) that I used for almost 20 years. It still runs. About 1.5 years ago I upgraded to a Bosch drill, with variable speed, a real chuck and even a torque dial. With all those features it was still tiny and light compared to my corded DeWalt (the "real" drill). I charged up the 2 batteries. Used the drill for all the little projects and finally, two weeks ago, the first battery ran out. Put in the other, which has held its charge just fine, and back to work.

I'm a big fan of my Bosch 12 volt tools. I like the small size and the power works for almost everything I do. As a DIYer, I rarely need to charge my tools as I don't use them that often.

The batteries used have come a long way! They can deliver high peak current which corresponds to high torque. Lifetime is also better.

That combined with better brushless motors and controllers means that these tools are way better overall.

    operating these things while wired in is just a huge 
    pain in the ass. Meanwhile my neighbors who have battery 
    powered equivalents are doing just fine. My mower (which 
    came with the house) is battery powered and works great.

Yeah, sometimes "worse is better." I went from a gas-powered leaf blower to a 40V Ryobi leaf blower and I use it probably 25X as often because of the convenience. It's quiet enough to use late at night for cleanup in the garage without worrying about waking the neighbors (also I won't die from using a gas-powered device in an enclosed space...)

The 40V leaf blower is obviously less powerful, but it's powerful enough and has more than enough power and runtime to clean up a 1/4 acre suburban yard or maybe even twice that.

    But [batteries] are definitively an additional 
    point of failure and complexity. 

Well, theoretically yes! But in practice it certainly seems the answer is no, they're not really a failure point. This is the height of unscientific anecdota, obviously, but on forums and comment sections and such I just don't see people having battery issues with these major brands.

I think Li-Ion batteries are pretty mature technology at this point. There's a little bit of complexity in the battery itself because it keeps track of its charge level. Then the tools themselves seem to be pretty much braindead simple w.r.t battery technology. They are simply expecting some DC input from the battery. And the battery shuts itself off when the level is too low.

Worst comes to worst, a battery fails, you get a new one for a fairly reasonable cost. Once you buy into a tool system you will probably have at least two batteries so you're not dead in the water in the meantime.

The batteries do die (usually because of letting them sit too long or running them too hard or discharging them too much) but they're reliable enough and it's just a simple swap when it finally does die.

I've never bought a battery, I either get new ones with a kit I want, or I can buy a tool and get a battery free, etc.