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Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by CodeWriter23 on Monday February 05, 2024 @10:56AM (#39262490)
I said this in a previous thread, a QA/QC/SOP firm either has a culture where nobody would dare violate SOP or it doesn’t. It’s not about “admitting” a problem, they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect. But as the QA guys where I work say, they are a cost center.

There are two real questions here, can Boeing strictly follow their QA/QC regime and remain profitable. Second, can they get through their current period where FAA inspectors have set up shop on their premises and are now effectively another layer of supervisors. They’re in the stage now where the FAA are on the shop floor basically as cops to ensure Boeing actually does what they said they would do via the documentation in their Quality suite. They either have the war chest or the financial backing to pull that off without an immediate price increase or they’re toast.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by dylan604 on Monday February 05, 2024 @11:16AM (#39262783)
> they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect

it's great to have those protocols, but when employees are retaliated against for bringing issues with no corrective changes made, what's the point in having the protocols?

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by CodeWriter23 on Monday February 05, 2024 @12:16PM (#39263665)
Any of that happens at the supervisor or mid-level manager level and should be taken to HR. By complying with bullying, the employees are not only committing a federal crime, they also risk being debarred by the FAA. That means they no longer work in the Aviation Industry.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by wahnfrieden on Monday February 05, 2024 @01:35PM (#39264961)
HR retaliates frequently
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by CodeWriter23 on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:36PM (#39265934)
Then you man up and do the whistleblower thing. And you do it having established a written record with HR. The choice between keeping my job vs maiming / killing strangers due to my own negligence is a no-brainer for me.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by kelnos on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:18PM (#39268024)
I'm glad you have the financial stability to be able to take that (IMO admirable) principled stance, but I think it's unreasonable to expect that's the case for everyone, or even most people.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by CodeWriter23 on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:27PM (#39268112)
I'm glad you're ok with killing and injuring others so you don't have to face the discomfort of finding another job.

I've quit jobs on principle twice. No safety net, no savings. Just a belief I would be better off without that job. Turns out, I was right.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by dylan604 on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:02PM (#39268428)
Great, so you can be a Boeing employee that tried to raise the issue on multiple occasions, you have the documentation to prove that, you rage quite, and then attempt to blow the whistle, but the planes crash anyways. What a pathetic human you are for taking so long to grow a pair.

You should grow up and realize not everyone is the same. So you've rage quit twice out of "principles". Great. What changed at the company you left? Some would rightfully call you a quitter for not seeing through with the changes.

We can all have views on either end of this, but it doesn't make any of us RIGHT.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by wahnfrieden on Monday February 05, 2024 @08:26PM (#39269627)
More likely you need mass worker movements, and work toward forming them (wildcat or otherwise) not some simple 3 steps for solving executive malice and greed with processes handed to you by the state and your boss
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by dylan604 on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:10PM (#39265537)
Yeah, I'm not sure why people think that HR does not behave as instructed by leadership
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by FrustratedMonky on Monday February 05, 2024 @11:04AM (#39262617)
Wonder if this is problem.

Current QA/SOP's are onerous and very expensive to follow. But are based on having someone 'monitor' and 'check' everything. So two people, someone doing the work, and someone checking the work.

But seems like the old Boeing culture, was each employee cared about quality, so would check themselves. So needed less QA people, because everyone would 'do the right thing'.

So now that the culture is broken. Enforcing current QA/SOP's with additional QA people is un-profitable.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by mschuster91 on Monday February 05, 2024 @11:24AM (#39262920)
> They either have the war chest or the financial backing to pull that off without an immediate price increase or they’re toast.

Boeing has gotten Too Big To Fail, way too much military/space contracts. The US government can't let them fail because then the only remaining space capability would be SpaceX who can't fulfil everything (and is under control of an increasingly erratic billionaire).

What should happen is that the government should do it just like with the banks in the late '00s: assume control over Boeing+Spirit Aerosystems if not outright nationalize it (without compensation to shareholders, to incentivize other shareholders of other companies to make sure their leadership doesn't prioritize profits over safety), enact sweeping changes, and then after a few years either sell the remains off again or keep it under government control.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by denton-scratch on Monday February 05, 2024 @12:30PM (#39263852)
When was the last time you remember the USG nationalizing a large corporation?
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by mschuster91 on Monday February 05, 2024 @12:48PM (#39264125)
Forbes has a handy list for banks [1], that were usually nationalized, cleared up and the remains sold off. There was an article detailing the practice here on HN a year or so ago, but I can't find it at the moment - it was around the time of the Silicon Valley Bank collapse I think.

Additionally, after 2001 airlines were bailed out, and in the wake of 2008ff car makers and more banks [2].

[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/list-of-failed-banks/

[2] https://thenextsystem.org/history-of-nationalization-in-the-...

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by nixgeek on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:06PM (#39265484)
I wonder if we’ll see Boeing split and keep its more successful Defense business “closer to the vest” and spin out the commercial airplane business?