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Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by smoody on Thursday May 03, 2012 @04:22PM (#3925601)
Sort-of off topic: That guy has nothing on some of the other infamous CEO career lies... take the ex-CEO of Lotus (former makers of 123, Lotus Notes, etc). He lied about being a fighter pilot, having a PhD, and being a black belt in tae kwon do. source: http://www.zdnet.com/news/background-of-lotus-chief-under-fi...

I think people get to a point where they start to believe their made-up mythology. Or perhaps they reach a point where it's too late to turn back. That's what I learned while getting my PhD in Lying Studies at University of Fountainhead, anyway.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fleitz on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:25PM (#3925898)
"It "gave us confidence," says Maj. Gen. Thomas L. Wilkerson, former commander of the Marine Corps Reserve, who increased purchases of Lotus Notes after meeting Papows. "Jeff was a Phantom driver just like me.""

This is exactly why people lie, because it doesn't matter how well your software works, what matters is that the people buying it feel like you're on the same team. Whether the CEO is a fighter pilot or not should be immaterial to purchasing an MTA.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by olalonde on Thursday May 03, 2012 @10:34PM (#3926756)
My pet theory is that some people lie in order to "shield" other people from their own biases. For instance, let's say Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers. If I was a great Indian programmer and I knew about this reputation, I'd probably be tempted to lie about my nationality when applying for a remote job.

Female authors have used this strategy for a long time by using male pen names.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by petercooper on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:34AM (#3927033)
As someone in "the media" I often have to get in touch with people at companies to see if they want to speak at things or because I need to do some coverage of them and.. perhaps 9 times out of 10 if there's no address, detailed "About Us" page, or bio pics on the site, the company is very unlikely to be located in the US, while attempting to look like they are. I think it's sad they have to do this, though.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by kamaal on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:32AM (#3927340)
>>let's say Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers

Firstly, you assume that Indians are sloppy programmers. And then you conclude?

>>I'd probably be tempted to lie about my nationality when applying for a remote job.

I am an Indian and I'm proud of my nationality. I would never lie, rather I'm proud to be associated with a nation and culture whose history dates back to the cradle of human civilization.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by roel_v on Friday May 04, 2012 @03:57AM (#3927505)
It's ironic and also a little sad that by your poor reading comprehension skills, you sort of confirm or reinforce a point that he wasn't even making at all :/
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by isomorph on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:27AM (#3928056)
So kamaal's response wasn't totally on point but I don't see why s/he has been downvoted to oblivion

Prefixing "Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers" with "let's say" doesn't totally take the sting out.

I'm not Indian but I still winced when I read it

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by simcop2387 on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:20PM (#3929077)
This is why i usually try to use some made up nationality/country in things like this. It's too easy for things to get distracted from your point by things like this. My personal favorite is Elbonia for any possible hypothetical country, [almost] everyone knows it isn't real and is just an example.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by path411 on Monday May 07, 2012 @11:54AM (#3939513)
I take offense to the notion that Elbonia is just a hypothetical country.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by rehack on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:44AM (#3928111)
I think olalande could have avoided the Indian reference. I too winced a bit when I read it a few hours earlier.

I also winced at the overt & embarrassing nationalism of kamaal, good that he just stopped short of singing the national anthem :-) (but don't agree with the down voting his comment to oblivion).

And also at the second part of your sentence, was unnecessary. That completes my nit pick. Woof!

Edit: A description would help, if you down vote a perfectly civil comment of mine.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fullmoon on Friday May 04, 2012 @03:51AM (#3927494)
It is a thought experiment
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by seanp2k2 on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:26PM (#3926109)
Another thing too: what does it matter if you lie about the degree if /you can do the work/ ? Sure, it's unethical and I'm pretty sure it's illegal to lie outright about stuff like that to potential employers / boards, but again, if you come out and say "hey, I lied about this, but judge me on my output and not on my credentials"...that's gotta be worth something. That said, Yahoo isn't doing great, and I'm sure people will point to this as one reason why :\
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by mikeash on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:14PM (#3926567)
I'm happy to judge somebody on their output and not their credentials. But when their output includes lying about their credentials, I'm definitely going to judge them on that as well.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by epynonymous on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:41PM (#3926628)
maybe the ability to lie is a core value of becoming a ceo :)
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by harshreality on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:53PM (#3926657)
Being able to lie and not get caught might be a core value in the psychopath model of corporate leadership. Getting caught in a lie makes one a poorly qualified psychopath.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by rytis on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:18AM (#3927152)
I think it's just next level in the game: when you lie and get caught, how easily can you shrug it off and carry on. Not everyone can do this with a straight face. Politicians can. They're good at that.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by danssig on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:22AM (#3927907)
Like Hilary Clinton getting shot at. I'm still shocked that she was let off after "well... I have those memories". That would have been the end of my political career.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Natsu on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:20AM (#3927315)
Your comparison to politics has me wondering how he could blame this lie on his competitors or their CEOs.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by roguecoder on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:50PM (#3929501)
All humans lie, whether intentionally or not. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable simply because our brains do so much data compression when recording events and then unreliable, subconscious extrapolation techniques to play it back. That's before we even get to intentional manipulation. There are five lights and all.

I could see how being more consciously aware of the distortions would make one better at manipulating media narratives and organizing complex groups of people. It would seem to have less to do with being a psychopath and more to do with being smart enough about how people work to recognize your own flaws.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by mgkimsal on Friday May 04, 2012 @04:07PM (#3930112)
"eyewitness testimony" being wrong is vastly different from someone intentionally fabricating credentials. "That's before we even get to intentional manipulation." I know you're aware of the difference, but the terminology is, to me, pretty clear.

'Lying' implies some intentional deception. While saying something that is not factually true is part of that, the intention, motivation and awareness of the person would constitute whether it was a 'lie' or not. At least, to me, it's always been that clear.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fleitz on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:37PM (#3926150)
Yes, that's quintessentially the problem, Yahoo is looking for legitimacy while the company fails.

Our system of governance places a huge value on these sorts of papers as it self fulfils the prophecy that the governance tells us. Our leaders cling to legitimacy by pieces of papers to excuse the poor results.

I mean if the guy who could name all the shadows on the cave couldn't run the company, then obviously the crazy guy who keeps talking about the sun should never be allowed to run it, especially since he lied about being able name all the shadows. Let's put him in jail and find someone who really can name all the shadows and prove once and for all that naming the shadows is really really important.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by j2labs on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:36PM (#3926148)
While abilities are important, being able to trust someone is almost certainly more important.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by antidoh on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:31AM (#3927027)
If he never claimed the credential then I would be more than willing to judge him on his accomplishments.

Lying about the credential wipes out his accomplishments, at least as a C level steward of shareholder value and employee well being. He is demonstrably unethical and I would not feel safe working for him. I would never give him my money, because while he may be able to demonstrate past success, that does not imply that he won't fabricate a ponzi scheme in the future to prop up stock prices and options.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Osiris on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:29AM (#3927021)
You shouldn't need to lie about your credentials if you can do the work.

I have a degree in International Relations and a minor in Latin American Studies. I'm a software engineer. I still put my degree and qualifications on my resume but have never felt the need to lie or stretch the truth because I feel my skills speak for themselves. I was hired at my current job because I was able to demonstrate skill regardless of my limited previous experience and lack of C.S. degree.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by malandrew on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:54PM (#3929517)
I too have the most unusual of degrees for a software engineer and UI designer. I majored in Psychology and Textile Technology (with a focus in fashion and apparel management). I'm also a few credits short of a math minor and a physics minor.

It's a very unusual combination of coursework and the depth and breadth of that experience coupled with the unique perspectives I earned as result are more of an asset than a liability, especially when many people I encounter have similar backgrounds in computer science. Intellectual contrast provides value, because it highlights things that are often overlooked.

Take Steve Jobs and Apple for example. Steve enrolled in a liberal arts college, dropped out and then dropped-in on creative writing and calligraphy classes. He later said of the experience, "If I had never dropped in on that single calligraphy course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts."

People should own up to things like what they majored in in college. On the other hand, I don't think majoring in accounting is really the kind of person that Yahoo needs right now since it's the bean counters and pencil pushers that completely did that company in. Hopefully this guy has some other relevant experience that Yahoo could use, but something tells me that's unlikely.

That being said, it's still inexcusable for any company and any executive to push such egregious lies into corporate filings that are used by others to make investment decisions. If a company wants to lie about the background of their executives on the About Us page that is one thing, but to knowingly misrepresent information in legal documents is beyond the realm of megalomania and into the realm of legally fraudulent.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by geebee on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:41PM (#3929205)
I agree - and I'd say you also do a disservice to the industry and your peers when you lie about credentials.

Businesses should know that people with degrees in humanities who put in the work can become competent programmers. It might also make them more willing to interview and hire people with this kind of academic background who have put in the work.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by WalterBright on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:11PM (#3926565)
I wouldn't hire someone who lied on their resume, as I like to be able to trust people I work with.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by pbreit on Thursday May 03, 2012 @08:38PM (#3926473)
Lying matters at least a little bit, dontcha think?
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by oligophagy on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:43AM (#3927063)
Because you screw over people who are just as if not more able than you to do the work but who simply aren't out of control liars.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by wamatt on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:57PM (#3930851)
On a personal level I've always found lying and dishonest behavior repugnant.

But looking at it more objectively, it's an opportunistic strategy. Usually it is associated with short term wins and long term losses.

I tend to focus on long term strategies in life. Been working well for me and I'm happier, healthier and wealthier, and increasing as time progresses. It's a good place to be!

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by bmelton on Friday May 04, 2012 @10:48AM (#3928599)
Because lying is immoral behavior and the only reasonable response to catching someone in a lie is to trust them less.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by doug1001 on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:23PM (#3930904)
i think the General was making a joke here (which is actually quite funny). The joke is based on a double entendre of Phantom--one meaning is of course imaginary and the other refers to the nickname of the famous USMC and USN fighter plane, the F-4, in service from circa 1975 to about 1990.

In other words, the General is saying "jeff was an imaginary pilot" and "i was an F-4 Phantom pilot"--which he (Gen. Wilkerson) actually was.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by tomkarlo on Thursday May 03, 2012 @04:46PM (#3925725)
Or, the head of admissions at MIT: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-04-26-mit-admiss...

No question she was good at her job, but it's a real problem when you're in charge of any kind of hiring to ask your applicants to be honest if you're not honest yourself.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by sliverstorm on Thursday May 03, 2012 @04:55PM (#3925768)
Maybe it isn't a problem, but actually something that makes her good at her job? I'd trust a long-time liar to recognize other liars better than an honest person, any day.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by wisty on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:28PM (#3926121)
People always make this mistake. "Sure, she's a snake, but she'll be our snake". Yeah, right.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by CaptainZapp on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:50AM (#3927390)
Pfizer's shareholders most certainly regret the day when the company thought Mary McLeod, their global head of HR, who was their snake, was a great hire.

A most interesting, alas lengthy, read about the whole sordid affair and why it may be a bad idea to hire a snake (or a multitude of them) can be found here : http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/28/pfizer-jeff...

[edit: grammar]

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by vijayr on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:05PM (#3925809)
by that logic, may be we should hire ex-cons for law enforcement? they'd probably make better cops than 'normal' people?
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by MaysonL on Thursday May 03, 2012 @10:31PM (#3926746)
See White Collar Fraud: http://whitecollarfraud.blogspot.com

From the author's disclosure:

"I am a convicted felon and a former CPA. As the criminal CFO of Crazy Eddie, I helped my cousin Eddie Antar and other members of his family mastermind one of the largest securities frauds uncovered during the 1980's. I committed my crimes in cold-blood for fun and profit, and simply because I could. If it weren't for the heroic efforts of the FBI, SEC, Postal Inspector's Office, US Attorney's Office, and class action plaintiff's lawyers who investigated, prosecuted, and sued me, I would still be the criminal CFO of Crazy Eddie today."

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by why-el on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:11PM (#3925833)
Not a very good analogy, as ex-cons already underwent punishment and hopefully some reflection. Also, if I follow your logic, then that will ruin Spielberg's Catch Me if You Can for me.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by bmelton on Friday May 04, 2012 @10:53AM (#3928634)
Completely offtopic, and I don't mean anything negative about you when I say this, but I'm always interested in the response when people attribute a director to the success of a movie based on a book.

Did you know that the movie was based on Frank Abagnale's book (also entitled "Catch Me If You Can", or did you just prefer Spielberg's version?

Especially in this case, where the movie is so close to the book, it's questionable. Just like in Sin City, the adaptation is so true to its source material, if you liked one, you're pretty well assured of liking the other.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by why-el on Friday May 04, 2012 @11:13AM (#3928727)
Hey no problem, a fellow cinephile here. And yes I knew it was on a book but did not read it. I liked the movie for a whole set of reasons (For instance, Christopher Walken's performance) but reading the book would definitely have affected how I value the director's work. I had a similar discussion with my uncle, who is a writer and director, about another movie: The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo (The original version, not the American adaptation). My uncle read the books; I didn't. I really liked the movie, and found the plot rather satisfying to some degree, but my uncle hated it, and said the director simplified things to an alarming extent, losing all the interesting details that made the books successful. So I think reading the books is a good habit if one wants to judge the director's intention, but sometimes I just don't have time.

Update: I reread your question, and I think you want to know if directors are taking too much credit which ought to go to the book writer? I think in this case we might disagree about the director's function, which I think goes far beyond the intricacies of the story.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by bmelton on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:06PM (#3929007)
Thanks for the reply.

As for the clarification, I was more concerned with people attributing the derivative work with the credit of the movie moreso than the director on the whole. I probably only phrased it how I did since you used Spielberg's name directly.

The thing I find irritating (on a grander scale, not pertaining to you, specifically) is when cases like this arise where the movie rides the success of the book.

I get that it's probably specific to people who have read the book vs. people who haven't, but I'm usually interested enough to ask, as sometimes there are cases when directors take the movie to a level the source material didn't, just as there are times when a director is unable to take good source material and turn it into a good movie.

Thanks again for the insight.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by redorb on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:14PM (#3925845)
I think there is a very fine line between a criminal and a cop per say in mentality. Good cops will know what to look for in criminal behavior and good criminals will know how to look out for cops; not all cops - but I would say its a fine line between the best of both worlds.

Could be the reason double agents are so valuable.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fleitz on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:27PM (#3925909)
The difference is a thin veneer of legitimacy.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by carguy1983 on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:20PM (#3925882)
The good ones are already doing consulting work for the cops, FBI, military, intelligence, etc. There are countless books and movies and news reports about this, from organized crime informants, document forgers, computer/network hackers, international espionage, heist masterminds... the list goes on and on.

The majority of crooks - the 'ex-cons' you're talking about - are just shitty petty criminals or violent idiots, and get caught and punished. Why would anyone hire a shitty crook to do counter-intel against a job they failed at previously?

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by neckbeard on Thursday May 03, 2012 @08:20PM (#3926435)
"It's probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in." -- Lyndon B. Johnson referring to J. Edgar Hoover.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by larrys on Thursday May 03, 2012 @07:30PM (#3926298)
"I'd trust a long-time liar to recognize other liars better"

Hmm. If that is the case then it pays to hire some liars soley to review applications. (After thoroughly vetting them of course and making sure they are not lying about lying to get the job.)

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fabricode on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:21PM (#3929385)
Welcome to ABC, Inc. In these two cubicles we have our vetting department. One screener always tells the truth, while the other always tells a lie. If you could only ask one question... oh never mind.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Duff on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:41PM (#3926630)
Lying on a resume doesn't require any inordinate skill -- just loose ethical standards.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by tomkarlo on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:03PM (#3926036)
It's a big problem when your job involves withdrawing acceptance letters if you find out they lied about their prior education history, which happens fairly regularly.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by alecbenzer on Thursday May 03, 2012 @07:38PM (#3926324)
> No question she was good at her job

Out of curiosity, why do you say so? Not that the dishonesty would make her necessarily bad at her job, but what made her good at it?

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by tomkarlo on Thursday May 03, 2012 @07:58PM (#3926384)
She picked me off the waitlist.

Really - she was the Dean of Admissions for a very long time (I think she was at MIT for 28 years overall, something like that) and while I can't remember her personally any more, I know that she had a strong rep both inside the administration and in the related professional community as well. If you're going to be Dean of Admissions, I'd have to think MIT is one of the most prestigious schools in the country for that post, especially when you consider it doesn't allocate large quotas to legacies the way some other top schools do.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by brandnewlow on Thursday May 03, 2012 @10:33PM (#3926754)
Former Ivy Admissions officer who was at Princeton the year before she resigned from MIT. Elite College Admissions is a really strange scene. There are Masters degrees and other credentials that people earn to move up to deanship's, but the actual job itself is completely bureaucratic and mechanical in nature. There were people in my office who'd been there for 20 years and sure, they'd read a lot more applications than me, but they had basically the same exact job as I did. Read applications, visit schools, vote on students twice a year.

So the concept of needing a fancy degree to do the job always seemed pretty funny.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by alecbenzer on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:44PM (#3930823)
Well, while I do think the idea of giving priority to legacies is pretty stupid and give MIT credit for that, I have other problems with their admissions process (I'm admittedly a bit biased as an MIT reject -- though to be fair it would sound like you are too). I know a decent amount of people at MIT, and while some of them definitely deserve to be there, there are a lot of others that I think don't, and got in for what I think are pretty superficial reasons.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by brudgers on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:00PM (#3925789)
You always were one of my favorite students.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by rapind on Thursday May 03, 2012 @08:03PM (#3926394)
smoody! brudgers! It's been too long man, let's catch up?
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by ShabbyDoo on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:42PM (#3926165)
Yeah. This is an uninteresting lie relative to the more grandiose ones told by other executives. He added "and Computer Science" but accurately stated the level of his degree and institution. Any evidence that he has added "and Computer Science" in the past? Perhaps this is just sloppiness on the part of whomever prepared the SEC filings? And, the CEO, busy with trying to right the ship, just signed off with only a brief review? Given that I've never heard of the college and that he actually obtained a bachelor's degree, it doesn't seem like a very interesting lie.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by jwco on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:21PM (#3926581)
Actually, I think this is an interesting lie for a different reason. Look at their no. 1 competitor, Google. They had a PhD in computer science as CEO and now a guy who well on his way to a PhD came up with an algorithm that, as far as I can tell, revolutionized search. Why did this Yahoo guy lie? Maybe he felt pressure to keep up with the Google guys, and thought a modest lie about a B.S. in Comp Sci would do the trick while going undetected. It might be sign of the times--that PhDs and PhD-equivalents are heading large companies. And a funny misread too--their 2nd foremost competitor in search was founded by a dude without a B.S. at all.

Addressing your other points: I feel like a CEO should be aware of how he/she is being perceived and correct any mistakes about his/her record.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by zeteo on Thursday May 03, 2012 @04:58PM (#3925783)
Makes you wonder about the evolutionary pressures at the top of the corporate food chain, doesn't it?
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by cromulent on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:03PM (#3929559)
Bruno Sorrentino was briefly Telstra's head of Research (a very prestigious position in the day) but claimed a PhD in physics. However, his staff wanted to read his thesis, and couldn't find it. That's the problem with faking a PhD, I guess.

http://www.coxhill.com/trlhistory/history/sorrentino.htm

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Fabimaru on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:39AM (#3927948)
We had a nice one in France. A small criminal (convicted for fraud, theft, setting fire...) was hired as the director of a small airport. He pretended to be a aviation engineer, a former army pilot and to have taken part in many wars. Everyone was completely satisfied with his work during 3 months, when he was finally caught.