News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fleitz on Thursday May 03, 2012 @05:25PM (#3925898)
"It "gave us confidence," says Maj. Gen. Thomas L. Wilkerson, former commander of the Marine Corps Reserve, who increased purchases of Lotus Notes after meeting Papows. "Jeff was a Phantom driver just like me.""

This is exactly why people lie, because it doesn't matter how well your software works, what matters is that the people buying it feel like you're on the same team. Whether the CEO is a fighter pilot or not should be immaterial to purchasing an MTA.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by olalonde on Thursday May 03, 2012 @10:34PM (#3926756)
My pet theory is that some people lie in order to "shield" other people from their own biases. For instance, let's say Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers. If I was a great Indian programmer and I knew about this reputation, I'd probably be tempted to lie about my nationality when applying for a remote job.

Female authors have used this strategy for a long time by using male pen names.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by petercooper on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:34AM (#3927033)
As someone in "the media" I often have to get in touch with people at companies to see if they want to speak at things or because I need to do some coverage of them and.. perhaps 9 times out of 10 if there's no address, detailed "About Us" page, or bio pics on the site, the company is very unlikely to be located in the US, while attempting to look like they are. I think it's sad they have to do this, though.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by kamaal on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:32AM (#3927340)
>>let's say Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers

Firstly, you assume that Indians are sloppy programmers. And then you conclude?

>>I'd probably be tempted to lie about my nationality when applying for a remote job.

I am an Indian and I'm proud of my nationality. I would never lie, rather I'm proud to be associated with a nation and culture whose history dates back to the cradle of human civilization.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by roel_v on Friday May 04, 2012 @03:57AM (#3927505)
It's ironic and also a little sad that by your poor reading comprehension skills, you sort of confirm or reinforce a point that he wasn't even making at all :/
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by isomorph on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:27AM (#3928056)
So kamaal's response wasn't totally on point but I don't see why s/he has been downvoted to oblivion

Prefixing "Indians have a reputation of being sloppy programmers" with "let's say" doesn't totally take the sting out.

I'm not Indian but I still winced when I read it

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by simcop2387 on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:20PM (#3929077)
This is why i usually try to use some made up nationality/country in things like this. It's too easy for things to get distracted from your point by things like this. My personal favorite is Elbonia for any possible hypothetical country, [almost] everyone knows it isn't real and is just an example.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by path411 on Monday May 07, 2012 @11:54AM (#3939513)
I take offense to the notion that Elbonia is just a hypothetical country.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by rehack on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:44AM (#3928111)
I think olalande could have avoided the Indian reference. I too winced a bit when I read it a few hours earlier.

I also winced at the overt & embarrassing nationalism of kamaal, good that he just stopped short of singing the national anthem :-) (but don't agree with the down voting his comment to oblivion).

And also at the second part of your sentence, was unnecessary. That completes my nit pick. Woof!

Edit: A description would help, if you down vote a perfectly civil comment of mine.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fullmoon on Friday May 04, 2012 @03:51AM (#3927494)
It is a thought experiment
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by seanp2k2 on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:26PM (#3926109)
Another thing too: what does it matter if you lie about the degree if /you can do the work/ ? Sure, it's unethical and I'm pretty sure it's illegal to lie outright about stuff like that to potential employers / boards, but again, if you come out and say "hey, I lied about this, but judge me on my output and not on my credentials"...that's gotta be worth something. That said, Yahoo isn't doing great, and I'm sure people will point to this as one reason why :\
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by mikeash on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:14PM (#3926567)
I'm happy to judge somebody on their output and not their credentials. But when their output includes lying about their credentials, I'm definitely going to judge them on that as well.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by epynonymous on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:41PM (#3926628)
maybe the ability to lie is a core value of becoming a ceo :)
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by harshreality on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:53PM (#3926657)
Being able to lie and not get caught might be a core value in the psychopath model of corporate leadership. Getting caught in a lie makes one a poorly qualified psychopath.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by rytis on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:18AM (#3927152)
I think it's just next level in the game: when you lie and get caught, how easily can you shrug it off and carry on. Not everyone can do this with a straight face. Politicians can. They're good at that.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by danssig on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:22AM (#3927907)
Like Hilary Clinton getting shot at. I'm still shocked that she was let off after "well... I have those memories". That would have been the end of my political career.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Natsu on Friday May 04, 2012 @02:20AM (#3927315)
Your comparison to politics has me wondering how he could blame this lie on his competitors or their CEOs.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by roguecoder on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:50PM (#3929501)
All humans lie, whether intentionally or not. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable simply because our brains do so much data compression when recording events and then unreliable, subconscious extrapolation techniques to play it back. That's before we even get to intentional manipulation. There are five lights and all.

I could see how being more consciously aware of the distortions would make one better at manipulating media narratives and organizing complex groups of people. It would seem to have less to do with being a psychopath and more to do with being smart enough about how people work to recognize your own flaws.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by mgkimsal on Friday May 04, 2012 @04:07PM (#3930112)
"eyewitness testimony" being wrong is vastly different from someone intentionally fabricating credentials. "That's before we even get to intentional manipulation." I know you're aware of the difference, but the terminology is, to me, pretty clear.

'Lying' implies some intentional deception. While saying something that is not factually true is part of that, the intention, motivation and awareness of the person would constitute whether it was a 'lie' or not. At least, to me, it's always been that clear.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by fleitz on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:37PM (#3926150)
Yes, that's quintessentially the problem, Yahoo is looking for legitimacy while the company fails.

Our system of governance places a huge value on these sorts of papers as it self fulfils the prophecy that the governance tells us. Our leaders cling to legitimacy by pieces of papers to excuse the poor results.

I mean if the guy who could name all the shadows on the cave couldn't run the company, then obviously the crazy guy who keeps talking about the sun should never be allowed to run it, especially since he lied about being able name all the shadows. Let's put him in jail and find someone who really can name all the shadows and prove once and for all that naming the shadows is really really important.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by j2labs on Thursday May 03, 2012 @06:36PM (#3926148)
While abilities are important, being able to trust someone is almost certainly more important.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by antidoh on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:31AM (#3927027)
If he never claimed the credential then I would be more than willing to judge him on his accomplishments.

Lying about the credential wipes out his accomplishments, at least as a C level steward of shareholder value and employee well being. He is demonstrably unethical and I would not feel safe working for him. I would never give him my money, because while he may be able to demonstrate past success, that does not imply that he won't fabricate a ponzi scheme in the future to prop up stock prices and options.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by Osiris on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:29AM (#3927021)
You shouldn't need to lie about your credentials if you can do the work.

I have a degree in International Relations and a minor in Latin American Studies. I'm a software engineer. I still put my degree and qualifications on my resume but have never felt the need to lie or stretch the truth because I feel my skills speak for themselves. I was hired at my current job because I was able to demonstrate skill regardless of my limited previous experience and lack of C.S. degree.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by malandrew on Friday May 04, 2012 @01:54PM (#3929517)
I too have the most unusual of degrees for a software engineer and UI designer. I majored in Psychology and Textile Technology (with a focus in fashion and apparel management). I'm also a few credits short of a math minor and a physics minor.

It's a very unusual combination of coursework and the depth and breadth of that experience coupled with the unique perspectives I earned as result are more of an asset than a liability, especially when many people I encounter have similar backgrounds in computer science. Intellectual contrast provides value, because it highlights things that are often overlooked.

Take Steve Jobs and Apple for example. Steve enrolled in a liberal arts college, dropped out and then dropped-in on creative writing and calligraphy classes. He later said of the experience, "If I had never dropped in on that single calligraphy course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts."

People should own up to things like what they majored in in college. On the other hand, I don't think majoring in accounting is really the kind of person that Yahoo needs right now since it's the bean counters and pencil pushers that completely did that company in. Hopefully this guy has some other relevant experience that Yahoo could use, but something tells me that's unlikely.

That being said, it's still inexcusable for any company and any executive to push such egregious lies into corporate filings that are used by others to make investment decisions. If a company wants to lie about the background of their executives on the About Us page that is one thing, but to knowingly misrepresent information in legal documents is beyond the realm of megalomania and into the realm of legally fraudulent.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by geebee on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:41PM (#3929205)
I agree - and I'd say you also do a disservice to the industry and your peers when you lie about credentials.

Businesses should know that people with degrees in humanities who put in the work can become competent programmers. It might also make them more willing to interview and hire people with this kind of academic background who have put in the work.

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by WalterBright on Thursday May 03, 2012 @09:11PM (#3926565)
I wouldn't hire someone who lied on their resume, as I like to be able to trust people I work with.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by pbreit on Thursday May 03, 2012 @08:38PM (#3926473)
Lying matters at least a little bit, dontcha think?
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by oligophagy on Friday May 04, 2012 @12:43AM (#3927063)
Because you screw over people who are just as if not more able than you to do the work but who simply aren't out of control liars.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by wamatt on Friday May 04, 2012 @07:57PM (#3930851)
On a personal level I've always found lying and dishonest behavior repugnant.

But looking at it more objectively, it's an opportunistic strategy. Usually it is associated with short term wins and long term losses.

I tend to focus on long term strategies in life. Been working well for me and I'm happier, healthier and wealthier, and increasing as time progresses. It's a good place to be!

Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by bmelton on Friday May 04, 2012 @10:48AM (#3928599)
Because lying is immoral behavior and the only reasonable response to catching someone in a lie is to trust them less.
Re:Yahoo CEO might have lied about having CS degree by doug1001 on Friday May 04, 2012 @08:23PM (#3930904)
i think the General was making a joke here (which is actually quite funny). The joke is based on a double entendre of Phantom--one meaning is of course imaginary and the other refers to the nickname of the famous USMC and USN fighter plane, the F-4, in service from circa 1975 to about 1990.

In other words, the General is saying "jeff was an imaginary pilot" and "i was an F-4 Phantom pilot"--which he (Gen. Wilkerson) actually was.