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Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by stackskipton on Monday January 29, 2024 @03:15PM (#39181852)
>At what point should an acquisition be allowed on the sake of something being able to continue to exist and possibly save jobs? Sure there would have almost guaranteed be job cuts with the acquisition due to redundancy, but would it have been the same amount?

IMO, probably never. I think this would open too many shenanigans of running a possible acquisition into the ground or attempt to lobby whatever government agency would regulate this.

At some point, to make rules easy to enforce, you have to absorb some collateral damage.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by thatsjustwrong on Monday January 29, 2024 @03:24PM (#39181991)
US antitrust law has a failing company doctrine. If you can show that absent the merger, the company would almost certainly fail, and no other likely purchaser exists, then you have the right to buy it regardless of any competitive concerns.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by i_am_jl on Monday January 29, 2024 @03:56PM (#39182458)
I was really hoping this was a novelty account that just went around HN threads, calling out misinformation.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by Nullabillity on Monday January 29, 2024 @04:12PM (#39182682)
Did we read the same post? "The US implements X" doesn't counter "X is a terrible idea" at all.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by maleldil on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @08:41AM (#39189971)
I think they were talking about parent's name, thatsjustwrong, and how perfect it would be for a fact checking novelty account.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by edgyquant on Monday January 29, 2024 @05:40PM (#39183771)
That sounds terrible and should change ASAP
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by cortesoft on Monday January 29, 2024 @07:36PM (#39184829)
Why? How is market competition or the public served by forcing a company to go out of business instead of being acquired? The end result is the same (no competitor), but overall productivity is hurt. Why is that better for the public?
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by ironmagma on Monday January 29, 2024 @09:30PM (#39185713)
Going bankrupt doesn't necessarily mean going out of business. Also, as another commenter said, "letting a company fail really just means letting it sink far enough that some other acquirer will pick it up."
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by throwaway2037 on Monday January 29, 2024 @10:40PM (#39186140)
Great point: In US bankruptcy law, "Chapter 7" is liquidation, and "Chapter 11" is re-org. Often, a well-managed Chapter 11 bankruptcy can allow a company to reduce debt burden and emerge as a stronger company, saving many jobs in the process. Chapter 11 bankruptcy is common in the US airline industry.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by bombcar on Monday January 29, 2024 @11:10PM (#39186324)
Chapter 11 is basically finding a lower bidder - the lenders are willing to take ownership of the failing company.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by troupo on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:14AM (#39186605)
> How is market competition or the public served by forcing a company to go out of business instead of being acquired

How is market competition or the public served by companies whose only strategy is to fail and be bought by the ever shrinking number of ultra rich mega corporations?

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by bobthepanda on Monday January 29, 2024 @06:12PM (#39184076)
Is it?

T-Mobile was cleared to buy Sprint because Sprint was not able to be a going concern. The end result is the same, with 3 national cell carriers.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by gms on Monday January 29, 2024 @05:55PM (#39183924)
Do you know why this didn't apply regarding JetBlue trying to acquire Spirit?
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by bobthepanda on Monday January 29, 2024 @06:15PM (#39184097)
Spirit being about to "certainly fail" is debatable, and JetBlue is not the only willing purchaser of Spirit.

One outcome is Spirit goes into bankruptcy reorganization and still operates, which is hardly unprecedented for an American airline. Nearly every major airline has filed for Chapter 11 since 2002, the lone exception being Southwest.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by throwaway2037 on Monday January 29, 2024 @10:43PM (#39186161)
Small note: JetBlue was started in 1999/2000, so it would be included on the "exception" list. But overall, your point stands. Chapter 11 re-org is bizarrely common in US airlines. Warren Buffett has many funny quotes about the terrible return on investment for US airlines -- both debt and equity.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by basch on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:02AM (#39186554)
>Delta entered Chapter 11 on Sept. 14, 2005, amid high fuel prices and the burdens of high labor and pension expenses. Delta significantly reduced its labor and pension costs while under court protection.

It’s always interesting that Chapter 11 is a way out of pension promises. That someone can take employment at a certain wage, and then the company can renege on the back half of the compensation once the person retires.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @03:55AM (#39187833)
Hence one should be wary of accepting the promise to be paid decades in the future by anyone other than the US federal government, or much more regulated entities like insurance companies. If the payer is not US federal government, stick to broad market index funds in 401k/IRA.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by philwelch on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:49AM (#39186795)
> Chapter 11 re-org is bizarrely common in US airlines.

Philip Greenspun has a good writeup about why that is: https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/unions-and-airlines

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by bobthepanda on Thursday February 01, 2024 @03:07PM (#39220649)
I suppose it depends on how you define “major.” One impetus of the proposed tieup was to launch JetBlue into the big leagues.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by notatoad on Monday January 29, 2024 @06:11PM (#39184068)
>and no other likely purchaser exists

this seems like the important part of that doctrine, and a perfect justification for why an amazon acquisition shouldn't be allowed.

letting a company fail really just means letting it sink far enough that some other acquirer will pick it up.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by dangerlibrary on Monday January 29, 2024 @06:31PM (#39184239)
Or it'll just fade into oblivion, like Convoy.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by throwaway2037 on Monday January 29, 2024 @10:35PM (#39186115)
This Convoy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_(company)

If yes, it sounds rough!

> On 19th October 2023, Convoy ceased operations and laid off remaining staff. Remaining staff were given no severance and were told their stock options were worthless.[9] In a memo sent that day to employees, Lewis points to "a massive freight recession and a contraction in the capital markets" as major factors resulting in the company's failure.[10]

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by techie128 on Monday January 29, 2024 @11:45PM (#39186483)
Nothing fades into oblivion. The company is obligated to liquidate its assets which includes IP. This gives a big opportunity to build new products that may be more economically viable. This would not be possible if the company would be acquired by the incumbent who will just acquire the company’s IP and sit on it.
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by ben_w on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @04:06AM (#39187894)
> The company is obligated to liquidate its assets which includes IP

"We have no idea who owns this IP in order to ask for permission, because the company went bankrupt" comes up fairly often in discussions about copyright duration and video games.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by vidarh on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @05:27AM (#39188444)
How often does acquired IP rights just end up in a lawyers filing cabinet somewhere, with nobody in the acquiring company sufficiently incentivized to do something with most of it?

A lot of the time - especially with failing companies where the sale might happen at rock bottom prices, but otherwise too - the acquirer and seller may have very different ideas about which part of the transaction matters.

E.g. one company I co-founded sold off a business unit after we pivoted, and where to me at least the technology was the most worthwhile part - far better than the platform the buyer had. But to them the 6% of the userbase they were able to convert to paying users of their own service was what justified the sale price. And as much as I think the tech we sold them with the userbase was better, I get that to them - even if they agreed with my assessment, and maybe they didn't - it wasn't sufficiently better to them to justify replacing what they had and knew how to develop and knew how to operate (we sold the system, not the company, so none of our staff went with them).

Acquired IP gets used when it is the focus of the purchase, and the acquirer knows exactly what they want or need that IP for, but even then more so if it's e.g. patents rather than software. A lot of software acquirers thought they needed still end up languishing and eventually dying.

But I've seen so much IP "fade into oblivion" over the years. I'd say, I don't even know who currently owns the rights to the majority of the software I've personally developed in my career. Some would be easy to track down. Others near impossible.

Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by troupo on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:12AM (#39186598)
So that's why most "innovative" startups in the US (apart from those bleeding billions dollars a year) never seek profit and hope to be purchased
Re:Amazon terminates iRobot deal, vacuum maker to lay off 31... by philwelch on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:51AM (#39186808)
What if it’s only likely to fail as a consequence of your own anticompetitive actions?