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Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by sharperguy on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @05:22AM (#39101593)
Most likely you've seen this, but it should be mentioned James Hoffman has spend some time experimenting with the Moka pot and has published his preferred technique on youtube [1]

[1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfDLoIvb0w4

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by jarvist on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @05:48AM (#39101774)
There's also a fantastic Youtube video in a neutron beam facility of a Moka pot, in which you can see the full process of brewing. The water and plastic handle appear 'black' as hydrogen scatters neutrons so strongly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESMU7JfVHU

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by 317070 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @05:58AM (#39101825)
There is also this gem of a website, where you can explore a 3D CT-scan of a Bialetti moka pot, to see all its features and flaws:

https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by viasfo on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:23PM (#39106411)
Their scan viewer software now works on mobile devices: https://app.lumafield.com/project/a5a9c7ef-d1c9-426e-9e2a-63...
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by asymmetric on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:05PM (#39107087)
Wow, it's really a shame about the new Bialetti pots. I've recently gotten one off Amazon and now I'm not sure if I should instead hunt for a used old model.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by ce4 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:26PM (#39109250)
Who knows if it wasn't counterfeit?
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by secretsatan on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @06:02AM (#39101848)
I always wished they would make a transparent one
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by ljf on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @07:51AM (#39102687)
Pretty sure I saw someone with a glass one on youtube, but it wasn't as exciting to watch as I'd hoped. I still like one though.

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FoqR9oCfI

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by Gormo on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @08:35AM (#39103098)
Too bad Scotty never time-traveled back to our 1984 with the formula for transparent aluminum.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by xgkickt on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @09:37AM (#39103828)
Not sure of the year, but aluminium oxynitride exists (edit: and more commonly, sapphire).
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by shiandow on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @10:47AM (#39104930)
I've seen one that had a glass lid that allowed you to view inside the top.

You knew it was working when the glass fogged up.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by s0rce on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:36PM (#39108539)
Seems like there are models with a transparent top (low pressure part), ex: https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Crystal-Glass-Top-Stovetop-Es...

You might want some blast protection if you use a completely transparent one due to the explosion risk and flying glass pieces.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by s0rce on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:32PM (#39108475)
I really like that video. However, I think this could have been done with X-rays by adding heavy salts (ex. sodium metatungstate or vastly more hazardous thallium salts) to the water or using a heavy organic liquid (ex. diiodomethane).

However, if you have a neutron imaging beamline you probably are motivated to make a cool demo.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by nunez on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @06:54AM (#39102218)
Of course James has a recipe for this.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by Mikhail_K on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @10:14AM (#39104408)
I would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn't do it in a blind test.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by nerdponx on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @11:19AM (#39105371)
He has done plenty of blind tests on his channel.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by 2devnull on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:27PM (#39106471)
I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by nerdponx on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:40PM (#39106711)
Of course, same goes for any other coffee-expert-content-creator (eg Lance Hedrick) or really any other expert in any other field.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by nikau on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @11:40PM (#39113699)
> I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.

Yes, as an example his lack of reviews on eureka grinders is very noticeable in comparison videos.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by samvher on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:22PM (#39107361)
Just tried out his suggestions combined with some of the comments there (what I tried: put boiling water in the moka to start, pre-heat my electric stove while preparing the moka, use a full but not overly full basket, and avoid sputtering by actively controlling the applied heat with the lid open and taking the moka off the heat the moment sputtering starts) and my impression was that it makes a noticeable difference. Specifically, I had always just accepted that moka coffee is fast and easy but bitter, and this was much less bitter: I preferred it and I think I'll keep these changes.

YMMV of course!

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by wolfpack_mick on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:25PM (#39109233)
I'm right there with you on all those things!

One thing to add: If you want to think even less in the morning. Just weigh the beans and water with a kitchen scale. 18 gr of beans, 160gr of (boiling) water (basically a 1:9 ratio regarding on the size of your basket).

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by j1elo on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @01:01PM (#39120507)
The CT scan page https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee mentions that detail too: Take it off the heat before the volcanic sputtering phase at the end; this only adds bitterness to your coffee..

Maybe that's exactly what you noticed. I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by pivo on Monday January 29, 2024 @08:34AM (#39176038)
> I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.

The idea is just that the beans don't get cooked as much by the heat ahead of the brew phase. For me it's made a big difference.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by samvher on Monday January 29, 2024 @09:46AM (#39176822)
I also think there might be more of a heat gradient in the moka itself, i.e. the upper compartment including the vertical tube might end up with a lower temperature throughout the process.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by h8hawk on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:55PM (#39109670)
Many people, including myself can taste day and night difference from result of different grinders. You can easily verify this by variance of particle distribution of different grinders.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by Mikhail_K on Thursday January 25, 2024 @11:59AM (#39131759)
Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between red and white wines with ease, but fail to do it when red dye is added to the white.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by tedmiston on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @11:40PM (#39126260)
The difference between quality grinders is super easy to replicate. Buy some freshly roasted beans from a specialty coffee roaster, then have the shop ground half and grind the other half at home on your home grinder of choice.

High-end (specialty coffee standard) commercial grinders produce a tighter variance amongst the ground coffee particles which leads to a way more even extraction, i.e. a more pleasant and balanced taste in the cup. Perhaps the most common model is the Mahlkonig EK43S, which is a ~$3,000 grinder.

Home grinders are far cheaper, in the range of ~$75–300 or so for popular ones, and tend to produce a broader variance of particle sizes which leads to big particles ("boulders") getting overextracted, thus imparting bitter flavors; and small particles ("fines") getting underextracted, thus imparting sour flavors. The higher quality and lighter roast your coffee is, the more noticeable the impact of the grinder is.

You don't have to take James Hoffmann's word for it at all, this is standard issue coffee grinder theory 101, which any specialty coffee professional would agree with. It's also easily testable at home, even if you haven't experiencend it in an experiment context. I took a short class on the theory of coffee once and the major experiments were comparing the same beans ground across different grinders (and then with or without use of a coffee sieve for further refinement) and the same beans across different brewing methods and techniques. The particle size distribution from the grinder is one of the most important variables in the whole process.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by Mikhail_K on Thursday January 25, 2024 @11:58AM (#39131739)
Only double-blind tests have any validity and those are not "super easy" to do oneself.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by gv83 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:29PM (#39109300)
The famous “coffee for people who don’t like coffee” video that has been a running gag in Italy for months!
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by Xcelerate on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:34PM (#39109367)
What is the context of the gag? I like James Hoffman and his videos.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by gv83 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:45PM (#39109510)
Italian households throw the thing on the stove without such meticulous (and time expensive) ceremony every morning, so this falls under the classic “American can’t cook” gag

I don’t even know if the guy is American, just anecdata from my Facebook feed

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by nonameiguess on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:59PM (#39109719)
He's English, not American, and became a coffee influencer like this after winning the World Barista Championship in 2007. This is, in fact, a "world" championship, not like the MLB World Series which is really just American. It's been held in the USA a few times, but also all over Europe, Australia, Japan, and Korea. Making coffee meticulously is hardly something specific to Americans or even typical of Americans. It's very weird you would even have this stereotype when the very word "barista" is Italian, the WBC itself started in Norway, and Europe in general is usually far more associated with fine cuisine and caring about craftmanship in food and drink than the US, which is associated with hot dogs, light beer, and deep frying everything in butter.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by fsckboy on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @07:16PM (#39124501)
>the very word "barista" is Italian

now hol' up

in English, we have a suffix -ist for a person who does something: machinist, pianist, flautist. In Italian, they instead use the suffixes -isto or -ista to mean the same thing (which suggests English got "ist" from Norman French)

what does this particular -ista do? stands at a bar, that's why they are bar-isti. What's a bar, in Italy? well, "bar" not an Italian word, they borrowed the word from English.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by klyrs on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @07:30PM (#39112012)
Speaking as an Italian who has had coffee up and down the country... just because "Italian households throw the thing on the stove" doesn't mean they're getting a good brew. In my experience, a high-quality espresso in north america is by far better than the swill that ordinary Italians burn in their mokas.
Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by InSteady on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @08:04PM (#39112308)
He is obsessive and meticulous about coffee, that's kind of the whole point of his channel. I came to mostly the same conclusions as him through trial and error while trying to get consistently rich coffee with it. It's actually quite easy to end up with something that tastes burnt, obscenely bitter, or metallic. It tastes delicious when you get it just right, but it can end up tasting considerably worse than good old set it & forget it drip coffee if you are careless/clueless.

Kind of weird this became a meme, since Italians are stereotypically supposed to really care about good coffee. My best guess is that for many households, the Bialetti is their version of Mr Coffee that they fire up in the morning to get out of the house before work and don't have the time or inclination to care about how it tastes. If they want something fancy and delicious that's what the 50 cafes within walking distance are for. That or their following a sub-optimal family tradition for how to brew with it.

Anyway, I only watched the video once but from what I recall the only thing that seemed especially over the top was the trivet to buffer the heat of the stove.

Re:The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot by EasyMark on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @01:07AM (#39114182)
That is way more than I'll ever do. I just use regular fresh ground coffee, some water, half and half, a teaspoon of sugar and you're good. He's right about lowering the heat though, but you can get 90% the same result with just fresh ground coffee and low heat, you don't need a ton of gadgets. I prefer the stainless steel pot to avoid aluminum leeching.