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Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by askonomm on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:19AM (#38672662)
It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by eviks on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:40AM (#38673147)
How is some easy-to-ignore popup or even a few file types/protocols (aren't there still no automatic workarounds?) worse than breaking your system ?

> 4, when installed on Windows 95 or NT 4, would replace or update many system files with its own special versions, which sometimes broke functionality of other applications, and made it almost impossible to re-install these OSes once IE 4 was installed.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by MaxikCZ on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:37PM (#38674603)
Thats as if a facism broke out and people would be like "why you say its worse than before, ever seen system of goverment of egyptians that built the pyramids?"
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by failrate on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:20AM (#38672997)
I was coming here to comment on exactly this experience. The banner ad for Edge that was inserted onto the chrome download page tried selling me on Edges privacy and/or security while doing something that essentially violated both.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by xoac on Sunday December 17, 2023 @10:07AM (#38673315)
Wtf I just install Firefox and literally don't even register that Edge exists. Have used 11 since the beta. People make this into some very big issue while ignoring that the only real monopoly in this space is Google.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by amadeuspagel on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:21PM (#38674435)
I'm not going to argue about who the real monopoly is, but I'll try to make the distinction between choice and market share explicit. I don't have an issue with a product having a big market share, I have an issue with my choice being restricted.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by dns_snek on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:45AM (#38674078)
Haven't you run into the ""bug"" where certain Microsoft programs open links in Edge, completely disregarding default browser settings?

Assuming you haven't turned off web results in Win11 start menu, try searching for something and click on one of the Bing results. Those used to open Edge, and it certainly wasn't the only program that ignored user preferences.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by xoac on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:08PM (#38674306)
Yeah I disabled web results because I don't like that it slows down search and I would never actually use start menu to search the web.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by tshirthoodie on Sunday December 17, 2023 @02:56PM (#38675818)
>I would never actually use start menu to search the web

You mean like every other person that has ever lived?

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by askonomm on Sunday December 17, 2023 @10:45AM (#38673583)
How do you install Firefox without using Edge? By default there is no other browser on Windows, and presumably you need a browser to visit firefox.com, no? Or you carry Firefox installer around on a USB with you?
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by throwawaysugar on Sunday December 17, 2023 @10:48AM (#38673596)
Winkey+R and then

    powershell -Command "& {Invoke-WebRequest -Uri 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile 'Firefox.exe'}"
Not saying it's ergonomic but since you asked ;-)
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by askonomm on Sunday December 17, 2023 @10:50AM (#38673616)
I mean ... I guess this works.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it I'm saving this to avoid using Edge myself in the future. Thank you!

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by jodrellblank on Sunday December 17, 2023 @04:39PM (#38676717)
-Command “& {thing}”

is the same as

-Command “thing”

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by throwawaysugar on Monday December 18, 2023 @09:07AM (#38682688)
Makes sense, sorry... I hate PowerShell tbh. I just googled/ChatGPT'd that!
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by extraduder_ire on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:47PM (#38678727)
Don't think they still have an FTP site, but I used the trick of opening ftp.mozilla.org in explorer to get an installer at least twice during the XP era. That said, I also used the MSN browser for fun sometimes, as well as web browsing in explorer.exe.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by xoac on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:03AM (#38673721)
I guess I don’t mind using edge to install firefox or safari on os x. You got me.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by askonomm on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:07AM (#38673759)
Well, Safari doesn't have 10 dark-pattern popups it greets you with when you first use it, before you can even type an address into the address bar. Edge does.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by xoac on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:09PM (#38674319)
Edge dark patterns can't do shit to me.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by smoldesu on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:32AM (#38673922)
Not that Apple is a stranger to accosting you over browsers, though: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252412228
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by mardef on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:51PM (#38674721)
winget Mozilla.Firefox
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Zambyte on Monday December 18, 2023 @07:58AM (#38681810)
Is Firefox not in the Windows package manager?
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by w0m on Monday December 18, 2023 @01:20PM (#38686135)
As a primarily FF user on windows - I don't recall any of the complaints here being an issue. Odd.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:26AM (#38672697)
>Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now?

Yes.

Running Windows 11, I use Chromium for my daily usage and Pale Moon for specific tasks, along with Edge for things I want to cordon in another browser altogether.

Windows 11 hasn't given me grief in my so far ~1.5 years of daily driving it, and I don't necessarily hold Edge's nagging against it since it's browsers catfighting each other. Chrome and Firefox also act likewise when given the chance.

I will note that I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups. In fact, I'm still running 21H2, NT kernel version 10.0.22000.1281.

Windows 11 is quite well behaved if the administrator actually wields his administrative powers, as it turns out.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Octabrain on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:50AM (#38672828)
IMHO, I haven't tried Windows 11 yet but having to disable system updates for being able to preserve user configuration says all I need to know about the quality and moral behind that OS. Also, with the due respect, unless you have other measures in place for covering security, I think disabiling system updates is a terrible choice from a user perspective.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:57AM (#38672859)
The only attack surface I care about are web browsers thanks to JavaShit becoming a practical necessity, but fortunately those are much simpler to update compared to an entire operating system. Even Edge keeps itself updated since it handles its updates separately from Windows Update.

Everyone's threat models are different, mine simply doesn't care about most system-level vulnerabilities. I have had far more of my time and nerves wasted in the past by Windows Update compared to the supposed threats those updates protect against; the cure is worse than the disease.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by askonomm on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:08AM (#38672921)
That is quite frankly horrible advice.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by gchamonlive on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:37AM (#38672749)
How is disabling OS updates a sensible decision?
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:44AM (#38672792)
It gives me a known, unchanging environment that I can rely on to serve my needs day in and day out. My computers are tools, and the operating system is subservient to its administrator who is absolutely not Microsoft. I do not appreciate my computers reinstalling their operating systems every damn week without my knowledge nor permission.

Been working this way since Windows Update has been a thing, and I've never been let down. Judging by the many tales of people getting grief from Windows Update, I'm perfectly content to continue as I have. I will run system updates when it pleases me, and no sooner.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by fauigerzigerk on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:32AM (#38673090)
>My computers are tools, and the operating system is subservient to its administrator who is absolutely not Microsoft.

And you think this administrator is you rather than some botnet master taking advantage of your unpatched system? :-)

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by pritambaral on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:23AM (#38673865)
That Microsoft refuses to separate security updates from feature updates, so they can treat regular users as beta testers (and worse), is not your parent's fault. Your gripe is with the wrong party here.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by fauigerzigerk on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:35PM (#38674576)
I wouldn't say that. If party A creates a problem for party B, does that mean I have to agree with every possible response from party B? Can I not disagree with both of them?

Potentially letting criminals control my machine in order to avoid giving slightly more control over my machine to Microsoft than they already have seems like the wrong choice to me.

If I was so concerned about Microsoft's updates that I would even consider this option, I would be urgently looking to replace Microsoft as my OS vendor. And if that wasn't an option (because lock-in) I would hold my nose and choose Microsoft over organised crime.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @05:01PM (#38676904)
Considering there is no such traffic seen: No. :P
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by gchamonlive on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:53AM (#38672838)
What locks you in to windows? Programs? Corporate compliance? Familiarity?
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by eimrine on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:27AM (#38673052)
1. Bigger battery life 2. Decent PDF reader such as STDU, music player such as foobar2000 - if running all of these under Wine the battery life is going to become even less 3. If the computer is not needed to be connected to the Internets even occationally, there is no better option than W7.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by smoldesu on Sunday December 17, 2023 @11:45AM (#38674072)
> if running all of these under Wine the battery life is going to become even less

Citation? Running a Wineserver should use less resources than a complete Win32 runtime.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by w0m on Monday December 18, 2023 @01:25PM (#38686185)
In my experience, even a 'light' linux distro isn't optimized enough to match Win or osx battery life on the same hardware.

Maybe things have changed since my last test (Ubuntu on my ~2011 MBA installed ~12mo ago)

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by smoldesu on Monday December 18, 2023 @01:47PM (#38686508)
Frankly, I think that's more of a Linux problem than a Wine one. You're right that Linux is overall worse at power management than OSX or Windows, but Wine itself is extremely light on any OS it supports. On a resource-constrained machine (eg. >2gb RAM), I'd imagine that Wine would be less resource-intensive than native modern Windows would.
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @05:12PM (#38677000)
>Programs?

Yup. I use my computer to achieve things, whether extraordinary or mundane. I could run most of my software through WINE or some form of virtualization on Linux, but at the cost of jank. Why would I bother with inferior experience for sake of dogma? It's not even all my software either.

>Corporate compliance?

While compliance doesn't apply in my case, doing business dictates my computer be generally compatible with the other party's computer. So that means Windows and Office.

>Familiarity?

Yup. Windows is reliable, MacOS is limited and Linux just wastes my time.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by shakow on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:42AM (#38672782)
> I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups

That sound unhinged... “so I we handcuffed our manager in my dungeon last year, and since the team has been doing great work; frankly our boss is quite well-behaved if the scrum master actually wields their power”

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by RunSet on Sunday December 17, 2023 @10:53AM (#38673634)
> I will note that I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups.

Better to use a long term servicing channel (LTSC) than disable Windows Update entirely.

The LTSC versions of Windows only get security updates, not feature updates.

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Unfrozen0688 on Sunday December 17, 2023 @08:54AM (#38672848)
>I will note that I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups. In fact, I'm still running 21H2, NT kernel version 10.0.22000.1281.

What is your plan here? Do you manually update after some time, or do you plan on running that version until you reinstall Windows 11? Do you reinstall with an updated ISO?

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by Dalewyn on Sunday December 17, 2023 @09:03AM (#38672897)
I update when I feel like the endeavour is worth doing (eg: specific kernel or DirectX updates I want/need) and I can allocate sufficient time and energy to address inevitable downtimes stemming from borkages and unwanted setting resets.

Generally I don't reinstall Windows as I don't mistreat my Windows installations. As we speak, I've got a 15-year old XP install and an 11-year old Windows 7 install running perfectly fine on their machines (a Pentium 4 and i7-2700K machine respectively).

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by qingcharles on Sunday December 17, 2023 @12:35PM (#38674580)
I need to use Edge for testing. I opened it last night and it said "We've installed all your extensions from Chrome for you!"
Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by bionhoward on Sunday December 17, 2023 @02:03PM (#38675365)
So annoying! I use a thing to disable edge, but I also had to turn off some scheduled tasks to update it and spam open tabs.

Another abhorrent Microsoft Windows 11 feature is the tacky ads plastered all over the beautiful Lock Screen images. Oh, check out this beautiful picture {GIVE US MORE MONEY FOR COPILOT TO TAKE YOUR MIND}!

Truly, they fail to grasp the lesson of this random YouTube video https://youtu.be/MG7y8J0DXhU?si=lM46uNRGoVGrVDHL

Re:Internet Explorer is Evil: The Story (2010) by tshirthoodie on Sunday December 17, 2023 @02:55PM (#38675811)
>Chrome

That's a funny way of spelling Firefox