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Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by rollcat on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:18AM (#38473101)
While this is ridiculously cool, I think the project missed an opportunity by tying itself so tightly to x86 assembly. A system that is usable with 8MB of RAM? Hell yeah. Except you're not going to find a lot of PC hardware this under-powered; these kinds of systems are actually getting more expensive, as they're slowly getting relabeled as "vintage". You can of course run this on a much more powerful machine (say 1GB of RAM and maybe even a second core), but at that point you could also opt for a more featureful OS like OpenBSD or Haiku, which will actually make better use of the extra resources.

But what if you could run Kolibri on a tiny, DIY, microcontroller-based computer? An ATmega or Cortex-M0, throw in some SRAM and I2C peripherals, run it off a couple of AA batteries and browse the web on that? That'd be ludicrously cool.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by nunobrito on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:59AM (#38473590)
A typical ESP32 S3 nowadays comes with 4 to 8 MB of RAM. Very likely more. Already comes with bluetooth and Wifi for 5 to 10 USD.

Would certainly enjoy have an GUI-based OS like this running on it.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by spiritplumber on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:06AM (#38473658)
Check out the Parallax Propeller, there is a GUI-based OS for it. And Forth, at the same time.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by nunobrito on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:30PM (#38476243)
Doesn't look promissing, sorry. Was looking and looking, but where is the GUI-based OS?

Nowadays we can use LVGL and C++ to write apps, or run script based C code using interpreters like Wrench: https://github.com/jingoro2112/wrench

What I'm missing is an GUI-based OS like Kolibri to launch apps.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by spiritplumber on Friday December 01, 2023 @09:22PM (#38495251)
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by dogma1138 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:48PM (#38478190)
ESP32 has no display hardware even if it is more powerful than many computers of the 80’s those did come with dedicated graphics/display cards.

Modern display signaling takes a lot of compute power simply due to the sheer complexity of it and even emulating something like VGA over I/O pins would eat most of not all the compute power available on an MCU.

So you’re essentially stuck with a terminal over the network with an ESP which if you again make graphical would cost more in rendering and stream compression than there is compute so you’re stuck with text based terminals.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:45PM (#38480301)
You can run a passable GUI over SPI using displays with an integrated frame buffer. LVGL in particular is a GUI lib optimized to render strips of updated data rather than full frames and it performs well with such devices.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by nunobrito on Friday December 01, 2023 @09:06AM (#38486785)
Yes, I've been doing that. LVGL is amazing. Still, I'm waiting for the time when we have a GUI-based OS available. The possibility of running scripts that work as apps from a memory card and so on.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by nunobrito on Friday December 01, 2023 @09:13AM (#38486863)
My apologies but that statement is the same as saying that a Pentium IV has no display hardware. You are right that a CPU has no display card but missed the point because we speak here about support for running an OS on that CPU in connection with peripherals.

Nowadays you can buy ESP32 boards that include touchscreen displays, memory card readers and so on for 13 euros with shipping included: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006110360174.html

Don't even understand what you mean with "a lot of compute power". We've been using LVGL for GUI apps and playing movies on these devices since a long time just fine. Here is a demonstration of that board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AVyvwv0agk

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by eternityforest on Friday December 01, 2023 @04:42AM (#38484954)
I've been wondering for a long time when we're going to get an open OS for making app-capable ESP32 stuff. We've got the Cardputer and the t-keyboard, the hardware is there.

This stuff even has mesh networking, and yet we still don't have Cybikos!

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by anta40 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:50AM (#38473480)
Yep. I imagine adding support for different CPU architectures will be... well good luck with that.

Perhaps not every OS needs to be portable like Linux...

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by diffuse_l on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:13AM (#38473748)
This reminds me the time when Linus said that linux will be hard to port to other architectures, since it is tightly coupled with the 386 architecture...
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by wang_li on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:46AM (#38475699)
Just shows that he didn’t have much knowledge of other platforms or didn’t have much vision about where his project would go. Fact is if you squint enough every modern system looks like a VAX. The same abstractions fit nearly every architecture.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by seanw444 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:52AM (#38474215)
Certainly would've been less easy without large community contributions.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by sumtechguy on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:33PM (#38478035)
At the time he said that he was not wrong. There were huge chunks of .s files that did interesting asm things.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by squarefoot on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:48AM (#38475713)
> Yep. I imagine adding support for different CPU architectures will be... well good luck with that.

Extremely hard indeed, probably more like a 95% rewrite. Might however make sense as a killer application for small ARM or Risc-V boards where Linux would be either overkill or too demanding.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by mysterydip on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:04PM (#38477640)
Would it be possible to make a "naive port" by replacing cisc instructions with essentially risc microcode (almost like how processors work now)?
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by blueflow on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:47AM (#38474161)
> Except you're not going to find a lot of PC hardware this under-powered

You don't need a machine with exactly 8MB. Nowadays having 1GB RAM is under-powered enough that you'll probably have more fun with Kolibri than with a regular OS.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by rollcat on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:40AM (#38485681)
Correct, but with 1GB available I'd be much more tempted to run Haiku ;)
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by creshal on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:46AM (#38474147)
It's a shame that the embedded x86 market died with the Geode and the C7, for a while you could legitimately find fairly cheap embedded devices with x86 chips under the hood.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by zozbot234 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:55AM (#38474249)
Did it, though? Apparently you can buy i586-on-a-SoC boards, they seem to be quite popular in the retro/vintage gaming community.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by rijoja on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:19AM (#38475339)
Cool, does anyone have any recommendations?
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by creshal on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:31AM (#38475481)
Oh, that is not something you should tell me right before Christmas...

...but I want a link anyway

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by rollcat on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:08AM (#38485473)
Right buddy, you can't tease us like this and go
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by mysterydip on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:43AM (#38474095)
What about a use case of VMs? You could run hundreds potentially on a single host.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by creshal on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:47AM (#38474153)
For that use case, you have a lot of far better specialized unikernels to choose from.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by dizhn on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:11PM (#38477731)
Can you provide some examples please.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by eyberg on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:32PM (#38478670)
I work with https://nanos.org && https://ops.city - we can run thousands of these on commodity hardware.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by dizhn on Friday December 01, 2023 @05:51AM (#38485375)
Thank you. I have been interested in micro vms (as a layman curious) since I've heard of firecracker but was never able to find any similar projects. Maybe i should have been looking for nano vms. Cheers.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by rollcat on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:09AM (#38485479)
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by sedatk on Thursday November 30, 2023 @01:13PM (#38476863)
> A system that is usable with 8MB of RAM? Hell yeah.

I remember finding outrageous that Linux required at least 8MB to run X Window System back in 1995. How far have we come.

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:48PM (#38480349)
I ran X on 4MB. It was heavily dependent on swap but it was just about usable for basic things especially if the application was a remote client.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by lriel on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:22PM (#38482238)
This is the floppy to bring onto the DeLorean. Relatively, today that would go to the early nighties. Pop that into into the Aptiva/AST, and go blow your own mind with this, and probably the timeline too.
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by The_Colonel on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:40PM (#38478760)
> I think the project missed an opportunity by tying itself so tightly to x86 assembly.

What sort of "opportunity" did authors miss? They're not a business.

Or is writing ARM assembler necessarily more fun than writing x86?

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by Karrot_Kream on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:19PM (#38479277)
> What sort of "opportunity" did authors miss? They're not a business.

From GP:

> Except you're not going to find a lot of PC hardware this under-powered; these kinds of systems are actually getting more expensive, as they're slowly getting relabeled as "vintage"

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by The_Colonel on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:11PM (#38479911)
I think that not having enough x86 hardware is the least of authors' worries ...
Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by Cannabat on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:50PM (#38480359)
Yeah but it’s hard to find the hardware this OS is designed for. There’s little need for it. Compared to the oodles or low powered arm boards out there that would love this. So the missed opportunity is just that a lot of effort has gone into a very narrow platform that would probably be more appreciated on a diff platform

Super cool project though of course

Re:Kolibri OS: fits on a floppy disk, programmed using inter... by illys on Thursday November 30, 2023 @06:30PM (#38480767)
A cool DIY computer project could be a free re-creation of computers of the past. I believe it would make sense re-running the path of computer history, but pushing more and more open-source in it. You already can buy a NuXT, based on Sergey Kiselev's work to provide DIY resources to create a PC XT computer (including the BIOS).

I thought someone could enlarge the design to a more modern architecture when I found an old Compaq internal documentation showing the internal design of the first commercially available 80386 computer (Compaq Deskpro 386). I have just posted the reference on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38480275

Such new re-created computers would certainly be interesting to run legacy software, but it would also be very interesting to have modern and light-weigth software like KolibriOS (I know it requires a Pentium or more, but there is certainly little to change to downgrade to 80386).