News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by owenpalmer on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:18PM (#38466728)
This is what we call vehicle weight inflation. As cars get heavier and heavier, the roads get increasingly more dangerous for smaller cars, which causes everyone to get bigger cars. And the loop continues.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by MagicMoonlight on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:23PM (#38466795)
Everyone gets bigger cars because bigger cars have more room inside so they're really comfortable and practical.

Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol. This is the consequence of you asking them to get rid of combustion.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by AYBABTME on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:37PM (#38466957)
They're not "inefficient", they're less power-dense in terms of mass. There's many types of efficiencies and where a car is involved, EVs are largely more efficient in those measures than ICE cars.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by me_me_me on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:41PM (#38467018)
well the weight of petrol disapears, batteries' stay the same.

So petrol is more efficient in that way.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by alweirjt on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:02PM (#38467272)
Considering the weight of ICE fuel is 2-3% of a typical car's mass, that "advantage" is negligible.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by makeitdouble on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:00PM (#38467248)
> practical

US trucks would be succesful internationally if that was the case.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by chucksmash on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:23PM (#38467486)
Is zeroing in on one single word from a parent post and "but actually..."ing it really a worthwhile use of your time? Pickup trucks are obviously practical vehicles for a whole range of uses. They don't make Technicals out of Corollas.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by Ancapistani on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:22PM (#38467467)
That would be true only if the use cases were the same. The US is very different in terms of both geography and infrastructure than most of the developed world.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by freedrock87 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:56AM (#38474263)
Seriously?
Re:Cybertruck Launch by Ancapistani on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:44PM (#38478142)
Yes, seriously.

How many European farmers are pulling a trailer 150 miles each way to pick up a load of hay? That's a relatively regular occurrence for my family. That sort of thing isn't at all uncommon in the US.

Streets are narrower in many parts of Europe as well, which means a larger truck isn't practical as a sole vehicle.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by ponector on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:04PM (#38467289)
Is Tesla heavier?

Tesla model s has same weight as Porsche Panamera S.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by 0xfae on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:30PM (#38466874)
> batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol

What are you getting on about? By what metric?

Re:Cybertruck Launch by SheepSlapper on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:38PM (#38466987)
Weight, presumably, because that's the topic of the parent comment. Mile for mile, batteries are heavy and gasoline is (comparatively) light
Re:Cybertruck Launch by red369 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:36PM (#38466945)
I assume they are referring to batteries having lower energy/power density, as opposed to the efficiency of the drivetrain
Re:Cybertruck Launch by rockemsockem on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:38PM (#38466985)
Mass
Re:Cybertruck Launch by TaylorAlexander on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:27PM (#38468603)
> This is the consequence of you asking them to get rid of combustion.

What I asked for was trains and protected bike lanes actually.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by hypercube33 on Friday December 01, 2023 @04:02AM (#38484706)
I actually really hate bike lanes. I feel like they are far more dangerous. What I really want are bike freeways and multi use paths because sidewalks are dumb
Re:Cybertruck Launch by GuB-42 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @01:07PM (#38476769)
I think the proper term is energy dense.

Efficiency in cars is usually meant to be energy efficiency, energy out over energy in. And electric cars are usually more efficient by most metrics, even if you count the amount of gas an internal combustion engine uses vs the amount it takes an oil fired plant to charge an electric car that drives the same distance (well-to-wheels efficiency).

Re:Cybertruck Launch by yogurtboy on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:51PM (#38478226)
If you've ever been in the cab of a recent F-150, you'd know that they don't have more interior space than a VW Golf. More practical, sure, but only if the one time per year you haul your boat out to a desert reservoir is worth the countless attempts at parking.

Secondly, battery + motor is actually more efficient than ICE. You might be thinking of power density, which is significantly lower on an EV.

Thirdly, I don't love the pro-car company attitude: people don't have to compromise on low emissions vs. safety vs. practicality. Car companies have forced the choice upon us from a century and billions of dollars of marketing and lobbying.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by cityofdelusion on Friday December 01, 2023 @03:32PM (#38491935)
I have to call BS on the F-150 to Golf comparison. My 2018 Golf has nowhere near the interior space of an F-150. The Golf is (fairly) comfortable, but as a taller person, an F-150 is absolutely luxurious in leg/knee/head room compared to the Golf. It is like riding on a couch vs. being strapped into a race car. Not to mention that there is just about zero rear seat leg room in the Golf when adjusted to my driving position, while an F-150 my 90lb dog can stand on the floor of the vehicle back there.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by snotrockets on Friday December 01, 2023 @07:08PM (#38494360)
VW won't warranty it (due to the suspension not tuned for it), but a Golf GTI can tow 2,000kg. So for many boats, you don't even need a stupid truck.

Had people wanted cars that are practical, they'd get minivans (and vans, if you do haul a lot).

Re:Cybertruck Launch by stcredzero on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:32PM (#38479476)
Everyone gets bigger cars because bigger cars have more room inside so they're really comfortable and practical.

People in the US get bigger pickup trucks, because of market distortions causing manufacturers to stop making the small ones, not because there's no demand for small trucks. This is why importing K trucks is a thing.

Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol.

Teslas and EVs in general are way more efficient in terms of energy used per mile. By well over a factor of 2 in most cases. According to Google: "The various versions of the Model 3 are rated between 113 MPGe and 141 MPGe by the EPA."

Re:Cybertruck Launch by tzs on Thursday November 30, 2023 @06:12PM (#38480589)
> Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol

That's not anywhere near correct.

With an ICE about 80% of the energy from the gasoline is lost, mostly due to heat.

With an EV about 30-35% of the energy from the battery is lost if there is no regenerative braking. With regenerative braking EVs only lose about 11% of the energy from the battery.

Here's an article with some nice diagrams of the losses in both [1].

[1] https://www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-inte...

Re:Cybertruck Launch by JeremyNT on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:56PM (#38467754)
I really feel like a smaller, more nimble car is superior to these land yachts.

You survive 100% of the crashes you avoid having, and it's much easier to avoid huge cars in a smaller car.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by canada_dry on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @08:59PM (#38468339)
> much easier to avoid huge cars in a smaller car

Though, having a higher line-of-sight is advantageous and typically not a feature of small cars.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by hypercube33 on Friday December 01, 2023 @04:05AM (#38484725)
The bigger an ICE vehicle is the worse it's gas mileage can be with current laws in the US
Re:Cybertruck Launch by owenpalmer on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:20PM (#38466758)
I wish the inverse was possible, eventually getting us to bikes (instead of bulldozers).
Re:Cybertruck Launch by JumpinJack_Cash on Thursday November 30, 2023 @01:53PM (#38477451)
it’s very possible.

Bikes get out of harms way faster and in a much mire agile fashion compared to cars and the money you save by buying a bike instead of a car can be used to safely practice at a track that is optimized for safety and to make you learn the feedback system of your bike

Re:Cybertruck Launch by alephxyz on Thursday November 30, 2023 @07:34PM (#38481340)
> Bikes get out of harms way faster and in a much mire agile fashion compared to cars

That may be true but there are situations where you physically can't get out of harm's way even with good reflexes.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by ungamedplayer on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:39PM (#38482351)
There always will be, since reality trends toward degradation.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by jejeyyy77 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:26PM (#38466828)
or, spun the other way - you're much more safe inside a cybertruck than any other car on the road.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by roflyear on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:55PM (#38467195)
That doesn't support your argument whatsoever. Generally the safest cars are the cars that break quickly. They absorb energy through breaking.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by jejeyyy77 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:58AM (#38475061)
lol, are you safer in a tank or a smart car?
Re:Cybertruck Launch by TerrifiedMouse on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:47PM (#38476497)
Maybe it depends on at what speed you are going.

Crumple zones exist in cars because it’s better that the car absorbs (and deforms in the process) the kinetic energy of a crash than you the passenger inside.

Re:Cybertruck Launch by roflyear on Thursday November 30, 2023 @01:32PM (#38477159)
Depends on the situation. I don't think the race to the top here is a good idea. You definitely do not want tanks on the highway. That would be insane.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by itsyaboi on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:47AM (#38475702)
Cars that remain broken are safest of all!
Re:Cybertruck Launch by roflyear on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:55PM (#38467184)
And you'll pay a lot more in taxes to maintain the roads: "an increase in axle weight from 18,000 pounds to 20,000 pounds causes 50 percent more damage to the pavement."

See: https://highways.dot.gov/public-roads/mayjun-2009/exploring-....

It's massive!

Re:Cybertruck Launch by owenpalmer on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @07:07PM (#38467325)
Wow that's crazy!
Re:Cybertruck Launch by quickthrowman on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:51PM (#38476544)
Yeah, the formula for road damage is a very fast growing function

((vehicle weight^4)/number of axles)

Re:Cybertruck Launch by morsch on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:28PM (#38480091)
Just tax them by the same formula and watch cars getting smaller and smaller. And getting more axles I suppose.
Re:Cybertruck Launch by roflyear on Friday December 01, 2023 @11:24AM (#38488505)
If the world did work that way it would be nice, lol. I imagine such a proposal in the US would be met with "we're trying to destroy the EV industry!!!!"
Re:Cybertruck Launch by k7sune on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:59PM (#38476658)
I also think as heavier electric cars become more ubiquitous, they will impose a threat on structures like multi level garages that weren’t designed to take this amount of weight.