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Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by robert_foss on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:36AM (#38447613)
x11 has seen no development for 10 years. Staying on it for forever is not viable.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by cuddlyogre on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:01PM (#38447943)
I find that comforting. I know it works and isn't going to be affected by what's trendy.

Fortunately, the source is available and if there is a need to make changes, that is entirely possible.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by mjw1007 on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:10PM (#38448075)
If the X11-and-Wayland maintainers had put X11 up for adoption that might not have been the case.

That is, they might have said "We're looking for new maintainers for X11. They will be responsible for its future direction, representing X11's interests to the kernel and to distributions, and deciding when (and if) X11 is to be declared deprecated."

As far as I can make out, what they did instead was say "We're looking for people to fix bugs in X11, but they won't get to make any nontrivial decisions."

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by vetinari on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @03:00PM (#38450437)
By fixing bugs in X11, you get to make nontrivial decisions; that's the point why nobody wants to touch it.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by robert_foss on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:03AM (#38456084)
Anyone is welcome to contribute. You still can I you feel so inclined[1].

Contributions have never been discouraged, but no one wants to work on xserver. Remember, this is a 20 year old codebase. With all the cruft and dark corners you would expect and more.

[1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by abaines on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:53AM (#38447844)
According to [0] there have been several releases in the last 10 years. Including one in 2021 that added variable refresh rate and touchpad gesture support.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Server

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by robert_foss on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:58AM (#38447898)
Maintenance work has been done, yes. But not new feature development.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by abaines on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:03PM (#38447963)
Aren't the two examples I mentioned new features?
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by robert_foss on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#38448384)
Oh sorry. They weren't visible in the edit I replied to.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by gkbrk on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:28PM (#38448288)
What new features are needed to display my windows on my screen?
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by vetinari on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @03:06PM (#38450526)
On the output side: Mixed-DPI displays. HDR/wide color gamuts/LUTs/color management. Non-rectangle workspaces, or workspaces with no absolute coordinate systems (think headsets).

On the input side: touch gestures recognized as touch gestures, not as mouse emulation.

On both: hotplug of all input/output devices. Headless sessions and handover of sessions between console and headless, both directions. Reliable lock screen, even if popup menu is showing ;).

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by LoganDark on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @04:57PM (#38451885)
> Reliable lock screen, even if popup menu is showing ;)

Impossible. I'm told if you're not running xscreensaver it is safe to assume that your screen does not lock!

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by dmitrygr on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @02:17AM (#38456510)
> Mixed-DPI displays. HDR/wide color gamuts/LUTs/color management. Non-rectangle workspaces, or workspaces with no absolute coordinate systems

Pop quiz, how many of those work on wayland?

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by m4rtink on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @05:58AM (#38457909)
I have multi DPI displays (laptop + 2 monitors) work fine on Wayland (fractional scaling).
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by vetinari on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:11AM (#38458012)
Except the HDR/wide color/LUTs/color management, everything.

And the last missing thing is WIP.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by abenga on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:44PM (#38448495)
At some point you will have to either start building it for yourself or get someone to build it for you (when distros drop it from their repos). And that will become harder and harder as time goes by. Just recently apps I was building using Tauri stopped working on Xband forced me to switch to the Wayland Gnome session (on Debian testing) permanently. This will become more and more common, until it becomes untenable.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by gkbrk on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:48PM (#38448547)
I doubt it will be so hard to build. Folks build X servers for Linux, Mac and Windows right now. If anything, X will probably outlive Wayland.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by abenga on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:32PM (#38468657)
Building X is probably going to be trivial going into the future, yeah. Building and running future apps written for the Wayland will be a different beast though.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by gkbrk on Thursday November 30, 2023 @02:22AM (#38470684)
Just like there is XWayland today to make it possible to use a Wayland system with X apps, there are already similar solutions to run Wayland apps on an X system.

If you run `cage`, it will run a Wayland application in its own sandboxed window while the rest of the system runs X.

Similarly; if you run `sway` under X for example, it will start the window manager in its own window, and you can run Wayland applications inside it.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by Nullabillity on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:40AM (#38447685)
Maybe that's why X11 still works, while Wayland is still an absolute shitshow.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by dralley on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @05:45PM (#38452553)
I've been using Wayland for years at this point, and it works fine, and has continued working fine. When I switched, which again was years ago, it handled several things I cared about much better than Xorg. Try using multiple monitors of different DPIs on Xorg, it sucks.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by dmitrygr on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @02:15AM (#38456497)
"ls" has likely seen no development either, nor have "dd" or "cat" I bet

When will you youngsters learn that something can be complete, done, and in no need of pointless reshuffling.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by hulitu on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @03:00PM (#38464448)
> x11 has seen no development for 10 years. Staying on it for forever is not viable.

Erm, what ? Are you sure ? Why it is X starting without a mouse now ? It has not done it 10 years ago ? Why do i need a gazilion of font libraries now ? Why were the default fonts changed ? Why is Mesa a hard dependency now ?

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10 Plans for Wayland and Xorg Se... by freedude on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:12AM (#38474427)
Xorg is unmaintainable and this is acknowledged by the experienced maintainers that don't want to maintain it any longer.