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Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @10:38PM (#38388955)
My problem with the pixel, and the only reason I returned it, is the modem. The chip was fine, I don't care that it's "underpowered", but when reception got spotty it chugged power. Google made an excellent SMARTphone, but they seem to have forgotten it's also supposed to be a smartPHONE and it can't always be on wifi where it will stay cool and efficient.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by hypercube33 on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:44PM (#38389391)
It was exceedingly telling when Google bought moto (at the time a good phone manufacturer and excellent radio within) and gutted and dumped it instead of keeping it on to go wild with the nexus/pixel side of the house.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by b0b10101 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:15AM (#38389584)
iirc that was the plan but it really strained the relationship with samsung who threatened to move to tizen from android...
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by roneythomas6 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:30AM (#38389668)
Motorola phones where using Qualcomm modems. There is nothing really special about it. Even the Nexus had the same modems during that time period. Pixel phones didn't have widespread modem issues until they switched to Samsung modems starting with Pixel 6. Not sure what is there to tell about it other than Qualcomm makes good modem. Even the iPhones with Intel modems where inferior to Qualcomm modems and thank god they switched back to Qualcomm with iPhone 12.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by mjevans on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:10AM (#38390574)
Intel's cable modems also had issues. I wonder if there's some patent they're trying to work around that technically has alternate solutions, but they're all inferior on power consumption?
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by AlotOfReading on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:06PM (#38389141)
I would bet quite a bit of money they didn't forget, based on the people I've known on the team. That's just Samsung's modem not being as good as Qualcomm. Choosing Qualcomm would have led to a very different phone where the feature differentiation they were trying to deliver with Tensor simply wouldn't have been possible. There are serious consequences to the middle ground solutions as well.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by wmf on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:11AM (#38389550)
Apple uses their own SoC with a Qualcomm modem so I don't see why Google couldn't do the same. It would probably cost more than Snapdragon though.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by AlotOfReading on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:50AM (#38389770)
That's the dangerous middle ground I mentioned.

Google doesn't have nearly the same leverage and volume numbers to use against Qualcomm as Apple does, but even for Apple it's a devil's bargain. The licensing terms are incredibly onerous. If they updated them and you didn't agree, they used to just cut off your entire company's chip supply until that was ruled monopolistic and illegal. The royalties (one of the only royalties Apple actually pays) are substantial percentages of the final device price. Getting into bed with Qualcomm needs to be weighed against the risk to the rest of your business.

As a consumer, I buy Qualcomm modem phones, but as an engineer Qualcomm is only marginally below the plague on my avoidance list.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by mgiampapa on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:00AM (#38390519)
Apple also bought Intel's modem unit as either leverage or an escape hatch from Qualcomm. It's like having unlimited dollars to throw at a problem is useful.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by jprd on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:59AM (#38392270)
No doubt, though it would be useful if they could actually deliver a working modem that they will ship in their phones.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by maven29 on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:50PM (#38389425)
Has Qualcomm ever engaged in significant semi-custom work? (no, adjusting dvfs frequency limits or adding pluton to 8cX gen 3 doesn't count). Samsung was a semi-custom partner for Apple in the early days of the iPhone (to the extent that the M1 still has some Samsung IP in it[0]).

I heavily doubt that Qualcomm is even capable of working in such a role. In fact, the C-suite probably believes that their core competency is lawsuits and not modems, anyway.

[0] https://twitter.com/calebccff/status/1472517091970494465

(Edit: I meant semi-custom SoC design/architecture not cores, like https://www.anandtech.com/show/7281/understanding-amd-semi-c... )

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by kevvok on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:20AM (#38389622)
Has Qualcomm ever engaged in significant semi-custom work?

Yes, the early generations of Snapdragon SoCs were built using a custom ARMv7 core called Scorpion, which was later succeeded by another v7 core called Krait. The first ARMv8 SoC (the infamously disastrous Snapdragon 810) used stock ARM cores, but the next generation (820) switched to an in-house v8 design called Kryo. Around that time though, the company did massive layoffs, including in silicon engineering, leading to all the subsequent designs using tweaked ARM cores (despite also being called Kryo)

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by maven29 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:30AM (#38389670)
I mean helping others execute semi-custom work based partly on qualcomm designs, to clarify
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by re-thc on Thursday November 23, 2023 @12:32AM (#38389678)
> I heavily doubt that Qualcomm is even capable of working in such a role. In fact, the C-suite probably believes that their core competency is lawsuits and not modems, anyway.

It's not 1 of capability. They're trying to force everyone to use the full SoC and not just the modem.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by runako on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:16PM (#38389207)
> Choosing Qualcomm would have led to a very different phone where the feature differentiation they were trying to deliver with Tensor simply wouldn't have been possible.

Would you mind elaborating on this point?

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by crest on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:50PM (#38389426)
IIRC Qualcomm puts their own Hexagon DSP on the SoC which is where they placed their own low precision matrix multiplication accelerator.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by SketchySeaBeast on Thursday November 23, 2023 @09:20AM (#38393027)
Totally fair take. As a consumer I have a tendency to forget it's a game of trade-off, but I don't think that it's worth it, which is why I returned the phone, but I hope my opinion won't match everyone's and a lot of people will be happy with the device.

It's just a shame, even now I find myself eyeing the black Friday sales prices. I loved everything else about the phone, but I know that the battery life is going to drive me mad and with all the heat and increased number of charge cycles there's just no way the battery is going to last as long as the support does and that's a deal breaker for me.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by matheusmoreira on Thursday November 23, 2023 @01:21AM (#38389943)
I see a lot of people reporting battery drain and overheating on the Pixel 8... Sigh. Why can't they make a good phone? It makes me wish other manufacturers would step their game up so GrapheneOS could support them.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by vodkapump on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:33AM (#38390385)
When I got my Pixel 7 Pro I was shocked at how bad the battery life was, even without google play services. (came from a 5a) I love the phone, but the battery life makes me regret my purchase almost every day.

Then my coworker got the Pixel 8 Pro, and it has WAY worse battery life than my 7 Pro, he even went and got a new one at the store because it was so bad it had to be a fault, but no. It just is absolute garbage.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by rezonant on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:55AM (#38390819)
Opposite of my experience, I daily drove a Pixel 6 Pro from launch until 8 Pro launched and have been using 8 Pro since. I upgraded because I can, my Pixel 6 Pro is working just fine, I've added it to my growing device catalog for testing during mobile development. Over the course of the 6 Pro, I replaced it twice, once for a cracked screen and the second time for cracked back glass using preferred care (both close in time to each other from similarly stupid drops). I do not use a case for my phone. None of those three devices had any issues with battery. My partner is using a 7, two of my friends have 6 Pros, and I just upgraded my parents from 4a to 7a and battery hasn't really been a serious problem from any of them. It's not insanely good but it's also not a pain point for me.

As an engineering lead I do basically all of my non-programming work directly on Pixel, including tons of remote desktop, meetings, GitHub/productivity, k8s management, etc. I don't get to write code nearly as much any more, probably around 10-20% of my work week. At least for those workloads, things are fine. But the workload you run can dramatically change things, especially if you've got particularly power hungry apps involved. The OS gives you tools to identify what those apps might be when you dig into the battery area of settings.

> even without google play services. (came from a 5a)

Since you can't remove GMS from a Pixel without flashing a ROM to it as far as I know, can I assume you are not using stock software? A lot of Pixel's battery performance is made up using the adaptive battery features. When they are off, things are more dicey. Do those work on custom non-GMS ROMs to begin with?

To sum it up, battery can definitely be better, but I'm just not seeing the kinds of problems people complain about and that surprises me given my experiences.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by rezonant on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:56AM (#38390827)
Note though that I can attest the modem in the 6 Pro wasn't super great, and the design of the 6 Pro with it's curved glass definitely contributed to those drops taking out the screen/back.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by pshirshov on Thursday November 23, 2023 @06:08AM (#38391558)
Out of curiosity, do you have any Meta apps installed? I've tried to kinda debug the issue by reading the system logs. In the end my battery life was greatly improved just by full removal of facebook, instagram and, especially, messenger. It also helps to disable background data for all the apps you don't explicitly want to run in background and to set "restricted" battery mode for them. I'm using grapheneos with sandboxed playservices by the way.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by matheusmoreira on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:34AM (#38392079)
That's fucked up. I wanted to buy a Pixel just for GrapheneOS but it looks like it's not gonna happen. Time to look for a new phone I suppose.

I wonder if there's a Termux equivalent for iPhone. It's the only thing keeping me on Android at this point.

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by adonese on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:32AM (#38390691)
Mobile vendors really need to fix this battery issue. Currently on S21 and the battery can barely make it to 5 hours.

If my financials got better, I'll definitely move to iPhone

Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by awiesenhofer on Thursday November 23, 2023 @05:07AM (#38391227)
As someone with an S21 too that doesnt sound normal, have you checked your background apps and battery health? The energy saver setting works pretty good too.
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Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by matheusmoreira on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:36AM (#38392100)
Google is worth what, a trillion dollars? Surely they can figure out how to make a good smartphone? This isn't even their first try.
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by neoecos on Thursday November 23, 2023 @01:49AM (#38390093)
Try using 5G with sim while connected to 4g with e-sim it keeps dropping packages, is impossible to have WA or Google meet. Haven't worked on the pixel 6 neither pixel 8
Re:Three chips in and Google Tensor is on life support by wnc3141 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:35AM (#38390398)
this is a fantastic description