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Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by skinkestek on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:18AM (#38301996)
At this point, is there still any good reasons to use Chrome?

A few years ago some new web apps only supported Chrome, like they only supported IE a few years before, but today I haven't had to use Chrome for months.

I might just have been lucky but I don't know. Does anyone else?

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by vbeeaz on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:44AM (#38302207)
It's faster than Firefox.

Also it integrates better with Google services.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by Larrikin on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:55AM (#38302297)
How is it faster than Firefox in a meaningful way? Is this even still true for the people who insist on keeping hundreds of tabs open at a time?
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by jeroenhd on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:09AM (#38302430)
I'm on Linux, and Firefox's performance is still behind Chromium. Mozilla only recently enabled hardware acceleration. There are benchmarks in which Firefox beats Chrome (https://arewefastyet.com/linux64/benchmarks/overview?numDays... has an overview) but in general Chrome is faster.

On Windows and macOS Firefox is a bit more competitive, but important benchmarks such as JetStream and Speedometer still have Firefox easily beat (note the inverted score axes).

That doesn't mean Firefox is slow per se, it just means Chromium (and WebKit) are faster.

On Android I use Firefox for its addon support, but the UI is notably more glitchy and buggy than Chrome's.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by ahartmetz on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:21AM (#38303123)
> JetStream and Speedometer

If a website uses enough JS for that to matter, it's a problem on all browsers

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by jeroenhd on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:28AM (#38303223)
These web apps are quite usable on Chrome and useless lag fests on Firefox.

Do I prefer the modern "let's ship a JS renderer with every webpage" approach? No, definitely not. Unfortunately, quite a few web applications and websites u visit disagree with me.

There's also a perceptable difference in terms of browser responsiveness outside the page itself. Firefox seems to take longer to process UI input in my experience, for reasons I don't entirely get. There's a slight but visible delay before the page starts rendering that Chrome doesn't have, and that small delay adds up when you're working in web UIs fir a significant part of the day.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:48PM (#38307145)
Strange, on Linux I've found Firefox to be just as fast as Chrome. Granted, I've had all the hardware accel stuff force-enabled for years now, with no issues (on Intel iGPUs), so maybe that's why I haven't noticed any slowness.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by marginalia_nu on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:07AM (#38302405)
At least on mobile, Firefox is so unresponsive it's a complete nonstarter on a slower phone. Chrome is fine.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by concordDance on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:58AM (#38302875)
Seems fine on mine.

You speaking anecdotally or do you have data?

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by marginalia_nu on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:50AM (#38303506)
Yeah, it's slow to the point of being completely unusable on my phone.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by Larrikin on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:13AM (#38303816)
What's the point of even using the web if you don't have an ad blocker in your browser?
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by marginalia_nu on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:35AM (#38304164)
I mainly use the parts of the web that doesn't require one.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by leodag on Friday November 17, 2023 @01:11PM (#38307515)
Have you used it recently, or just years ago? It definitely used to be very slow, but since ~2 years ago it's very good, and my go to browser (my phone is not high end, by the way)
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by marginalia_nu on Saturday November 18, 2023 @06:28AM (#38318259)
I give it a spin every few months. Then I uninstall it because it's still irredeemably unresponsive.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by flerchin on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:04AM (#38303680)
This is the opposite of my experience on android. Firefox with uBlock Origin is the only way to get some sites to load in any reasonable timeframe. The difference can be measured in 10s of seconds, and is more noticeable with worse hardware.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by fooker on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:07AM (#38302414)
It is, Firefox is tangibly slow for me on mac.

Rendering/JS performance seems reasonable nowadays, but the UI has weird skips and freezes fairly often.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by boudin on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:08AM (#38302420)
My experience is the opposite, Firefox feels quite lighter, Chrome tends to use more resources and feels bloated.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by easton on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:32AM (#38302612)
Me too and I don't really understand why. On Windows, pressing F12 to open Dev Tools takes a good five seconds in Edge but takes fractions of a second in Firefox. And page renders feel faster, although apparently they actually aren't in controlled experiments.

Maybe one of the extensions I typically use in both works differently in Firefox.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by Anthony-G on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:12AM (#38302997)
I’d agree that Google Chrome was noticeably faster than Firefox up until around a decade ago. However, I haven’t noticed it to be any faster since then. What makes web browsing faster for me is the use of web extensions that disable the downloading of unnecessary resources and/or the execution of pointless Javascript, e.g., NoScript, uMatrix, uBlock, Privacy Badger, etc – the same extensions that will have their abilities greatly reduced by Manifest v3.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:47PM (#38307131)
I haven't noticed any speed differences between Chrome and Firefox for quite some time now (Linux here, so maybe it's different on Windows or macOS).

And I haven't found the Google services integration to be all that deep or interesting to matter. In fact, I'd found the opposite to be true: it's gotten in the way. Having the browser log into your Google Account directly has led to some confusing behavior, especially when signing into a second account via some webapp, which sometimes changes how the browser is signed in.

Regardless, I think we all would be better off with a bit less integration of Google services in our lives.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by jddj on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:45AM (#38302224)
I need to use chrome for maybe 2 websites per year on mobile which give me infinite loading spinners on Firefox.

One website on desktop, which I only use chrome (actually edge but I consider them to be the same thing) for because the developers don't take bug reports seriously unless it's Chromium based

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by VPenkov on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:48AM (#38302243)
One that I feel is underappreciated is the inline translation of whatever website you are browsing.

I don't speak well the language of the country I currently live in and Chrome really helps. I haven't really found a comparable feature or add-on in other browsers.

I'd switch to Firefox in a heartbeat if it offered a decent version of this.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by bantunes on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:54AM (#38302287)
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kibwen on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:04AM (#38302381)
Note that it supports fewer languages for automatic translation, but all the translation happens client-side, which is super cool.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by TonyTrapp on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:38AM (#38305015)
And several more languages to be added soon have already been announced: Russian, Farsi, Icelandic, Norwegian, Ukrainian and Dutch. So there's probably much more to come.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by Semaphor on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:56AM (#38302308)
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/linguist-tran...

Includes offline translation. I very rarely need this, so I can’t speak about the quality, though.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by BossHogg on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:39AM (#38303359)
I use Translate Web Pages daily.

https://github.com/FilipePS/Traduzir-paginas-web

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:42PM (#38307062)
On top of the integrated support for this in Firefox as of recently (that a sibling mentions), Mozilla has offered an extension for this for quite a while now.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Friday November 17, 2023 @06:49AM (#38302245)
Security. The Chrome security team(and other Google security teams like Project Zero) is top notch. Mozilla can't really compete in this field, unfortunately, Google can afford to and does invest more into browser security.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by fifticon on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:38AM (#38302678)
to ensure that you are mainly compromised by google and not by their competitors :-).
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by generic92034 on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:00AM (#38302354)
But if (! - I am not sure on that, yet) v3 is preventing ad-blockers from working the attack surface is that much larger using Chrome.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:35AM (#38302647)
v3 is no preventing adblockers, it changes the way they'll have to be implemented(they'll be less powerful than before).
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by redserk on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:58AM (#38302872)
Reducing functionality is preventing adblocking, which is overwhelmingly the primary action of adblockers.

Thus it is fair to state they are preventing adblockers.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:06AM (#38302935)
>Thus it is fair to state they are preventing adblockers

No it's not fair to say that. The same way it's not fair to say Apple is preventing adblocking in Safari even if the current state of adblocking there RIGHT NOW is exactly how manifest v3 Chrome will be(using declarativeNetRequest)

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by saurik on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:15AM (#38303046)
But, they are, right? They aren't preventing ALL ad blockers, but they aren't even merely preventing theoretical ad blockers: they are blocking concrete ad blockers that people have built and would actively use.

If there is a checkpoint at an event which seems to be turning away cars it doesn't matter if other cars are also getting through: the way we use the relevant phrasing allows us to say that "they are turning away cars" as that is a bit ambiguous as to why or how many.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:29AM (#38303235)
We're entered the backwards compatibity discussion teritory, not sure what to think about it to be honest.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by generic92034 on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:12AM (#38304650)
But you do not need to discuss that. Rather suppose ad-blockers are working less effectively under v3, leading to additional ads being shown. That would increase the attack surface.

If ad-blockers really will be less effective under v3 remains to be seen. But do you think it is an unreasonable perspective, given the technical limitation?

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:45PM (#38307098)
Given that the reasons behind Google breaking backward compatibility are obviously primarily because they want to weaken ad blocking, I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about this.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by AlexandrB on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:49AM (#38303490)
This is all semantics. Ad blockers on Safari are less effective than what you can get on Chrome/Firefox right now. Google is trying to make adblockers on Chrome less effective as well.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kstrauser on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:09AM (#38303763)
Are they? I use 1Blockr with Safari on all my devices, and don’t remember the last time I saw an ad.

Not saying this to defend MV3. The ad blocking situation for Safari isn’t dire, though.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by zlg_codes on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:59PM (#38307308)
There's no difference here. Adblockers need to continually update their blocklists; if a hard limit is put on blocklist length, then the adblocker's job is being prevented.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by buro9 on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:14AM (#38302471)
> At this point, is there still any good reasons to use Chrome?

I use Firefox for everything... except work.

At work we have Google Suite, Google Meet, etm and these do not work as well, as consistently, or with the same features in Firefox.

A specific example, if you have a 1080p webcam you can use this in Firefox and https://webcamtests.com/ will reveal that I have a 1920x1080 FHD webcam @ 50fps ... all good, but Google Meet will only allow 1080p webcams in Chrome.

That's a rich feature example, but even things like Docs behaves subtly differently and a little more rich and fluidly in Chrome.

What this means is that I segment my life by browser, Firefox is my personal life, and I treat Chrome as my work sandbox.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by ghusto on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:36AM (#38304983)
We use Google Suite too, and I have no problems with 100% Firefox usage there too. I can't say anything about things like the resolution of your webcam, but I don't know, it all just works here.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by akjshdfkjhs on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:10PM (#38306475)
Just use the slightly lower resolution.

Btw, in 2020 Google was caught red handed shipping broken code to firefox to make it look like broken/slow. Everytime that happens, just open support tickets with your IT dept. That is the only wining move. Otherwise you are just a fool being pushed around :(

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:40PM (#38307019)
I've come to see this as a feature, not an issue (I accept this as my "punishment" for refusing to install Zoom's app, and instead use it through my browser). Frankly I don't care all that much about what people see on the other side of my webcam. They're universally crap quality anyway. If I really needed decent camera quality for a video call, I'd use my phone, and a dedicated video conferencing app.

(Sure, if you've specifically bought an external webcam so you can have high-quality video chats, that's another story. But I don't think all that many people do that.)

Outside of the webcam issue, I've never had any problems using any of the GSuite webapss with Firefox.

Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by baz00 on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:38AM (#38302683)
I use Safari and Edge. I haven't noticed anything that doesn't work on those.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by donatzsky on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:42AM (#38302718)
Edge uses the same engine as Chrome, so that at least is not surprising.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by pingec on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:55AM (#38303564)
I use it to watch youtube, because youtube on FF causes way higher cpu load and battery drain on my windows laptop.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by Supermancho on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:59AM (#38303605)
Brave is sufficient on phone, smart tv, and desktop for me.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by tambourine_man on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:22AM (#38303963)
I use it for the dev tools only. I remember when Safari used the WebKit dev tools and I had one browser to do everything I needed. Those were the days. Then Apple decided to release some terrible new thing with way less features and much worse interface that’s better at integrating with the iPhone when plugged in, but useless otherwise.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by 50 on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:08AM (#38304576)
I've tried different browsers, more so these past few years, and always end up back with Ungoogled Chromium. It seemingly uses half of the memory of Firefox.
Re:Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 Is Deceitful and Threate... by ghusto on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:34AM (#38304965)
I've never had a Chrome based browser installed on my 7 year old Macbook, no problems here.