Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem

Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by joshmanders on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @02:45PM (#38281401)

> Apple could support RCS (the SMS replacement introduced in 2007) or just release an iMessage app for Android. But they have chosen not to in order to alienate Android users from their iOS contacts and create pressure for Android users to switch for the most petty reasons.

I never understood why everyone thinks that it's on Apple to open up their ecosystem and allow inferior devices to use their services that are offered for free to their customers because they're better.

Nobody expects KFC to share their secret blend of herbs and spices with other fast food restaurants because people prefer KFC over them...

If you want to beat Apple, then you need to provide something better, not think you get their cake too.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by calciphus on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @02:54PM (#38281520)

Because interoperable communication systems are supposed to be core to getting to use all that government-allocated public infrastructure (like phone networks, wireless spectrum, etc). That Apple intentionally degrades the experience for interacting with non-customers is "malicious compliance". Only implementing the oldest standard at the minimal level is worthy of ridicule.

If AT&T started introducing delays, message duplication, degrading image and video quality, etc whenever you messaged a non-AT&T customer, HN would be up in arms. But because the world's most valuable company does it they get a pass?

I don't care if Apple let's me use iMessage. I care that they won't implement RCS or let users change the messaging protocol handler on their phone purely for anticompetitive reasons.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by joshmanders on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @03:03PM (#38281660)

> If AT&T started introducing delays, message duplication, degrading image and video quality, etc whenever you messaged a non-AT&T customer

Except Apple isn't doing any of that. I have zero issues texting with my non-iOS friends, only difference is I don't get the extra goodies that iMessages brings to the table with them.

> I care that they won't implement RCS or let users change the messaging protocol handler on their phone purely for anticompetitive reasons.

Uhhhhh they don't discourage any of that. I have Google Hangouts, Facebook Messenger, Telegram, Slack, WhatsApp, all those options. I just can't send them from a single app.

You are totally free to change your messaging handler by choosing the app of the messaging platform you prefer to use.

You're literally upset because you can't use Telegram inside iMessage? lmfao.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by pseudalopex on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @04:00PM (#38282422)

They want Apple to let people use SMS in Telegram. Not Telegram in Messages.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by joshmanders on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @04:43PM (#38282981)

Telegram can't send SMS?

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by pseudalopex on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @04:51PM (#38283077)

iOS restricts SMS to the Messages app.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by no_wizard on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @06:00PM (#38283768)

More specifically, Apple does not allow other apps to access the SMS capabilities of the device.

Technically, if you have a tap in for SMS sending say, via a server relay, you can absolutely use other apps to send SMS messages.

I think Apple has good reasons for not allowing 3rd party apps to directly use the SMS functionality, namely prevents issues with 3rd party apps maliciously using the functionality to send spam messages, for example

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by pseudalopex on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @06:51PM (#38284077)

Technically a 3rd party app iOS app could control Messages running on a remote Mac. But it would be misleading to say 3rd party iOS apps are allowed to send iMessage messages.

Apple should ban SMS relay apps and 3rd party email apps by your logic.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by pseudalopex on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @03:53PM (#38282324)

What wireless frequencies were allocated to Apple?

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by depingus on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @03:02PM (#38281645)

The inferior product here is Apple's iMessage. Apple is using decades old technology (SMS, introduced in 1992) to poorly pass messages with Android devices over cell service. They could update iMessage to use RCS and alleviate a lot of the green bubble issues without "opening up their ecosystem" (whatever that means).

Instead, Apple has chosen not to update iMessage because the poor experience they are creating for their own users makes their users believe that messaging on iPhone is superior to Android. Which it obviously isn't, you just have to look at any other messaging app like Telegram that runs circles around iMessage.

If Apple actually cared about this "ecosystem", they should just stop supporting SMS messaging all together, and have it so iMessage users can only communicate with other iMessage users.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by joshmanders on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @03:08PM (#38281722)

> The inferior product here is Apple's iMessage.

Yet ya'll want them to open up iMessage for Android users. Sure sure sure sure sure.

> Instead, Apple has chosen not to update iMessage because the poor experience they are creating for their own users makes their users believe that messaging on iPhone is superior to Android.

Again, if you knew anything of the reason people "look down on you for having green bubbles" it's not about SMS, but about not having the extra goodies that people enjoy with iMessage when communicating with you.

> you just have to look at any other messaging app like Telegram that runs circles around iMessage.

Then whats the problem? Don't want to use iMessage then start your chats with your friends on Telegram, it's available on all platforms including iOS.

Oh yeah nobody wants to use Telegram even though it apparently "runs circles around iMessage"

> If Apple actually cared about this "ecosystem", they should just stop supporting SMS messaging all together, and have it so iMessage users can only communicate with other iMessage users.

So nothing changes other than to send an SMS to non iMessage users they change to a different app? That is absurb and a terrible UX.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by pseudalopex on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @07:28PM (#38284370)

> Yet ya'll want them to open up iMessage for Android users. Sure sure sure sure sure.

Where did they say this?

> Again, if you knew anything of the reason people "look down on you for having green bubbles" it's not about SMS, but about not having the extra goodies that people enjoy with iMessage when communicating with you.

RCS supports the features iMessage users complain most commonly green bubbles lack. In other words most complaints about green bubbles are about SMS.

> Oh yeah nobody wants to use Telegram even though it apparently "runs circles around iMessage"

I don't think Telegram runs circles around iMessage. But probably some of Telegram's 700 million monthly active users like it.

> Then whats the problem? Don't want to use iMessage then start your chats with your friends on Telegram, it's available on all platforms including iOS.

> So nothing changes other than to send an SMS to non iMessage users they change to a different app? That is absurb and a terrible UX.

You answered your own question. iOS restricts SMS to the Messages app.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by thefz on Thursday November 16, 2023 @03:13AM (#38286930)

> If Apple actually cared about this "ecosystem"

Hate to break it to you, but history has proven many, many times that all Apple cares about is separating you from your money.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by joshmanders on Thursday November 16, 2023 @09:44AM (#38290101)

Show me a for profit company, including your favorite device manufacturer who doesn't want the same thing. I'll wait here.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by no_wizard on Wednesday November 15, 2023 @05:58PM (#38283752)

Another thing to keep in mind: RCS does not support end to end encryption by default either, which is something iMessage gained early on.

Google as of Aug. 8 of 2023 will now E2EE all messages via their messages app, but 3rd party apps that accept RCS (notably, Samsung messages) do not do this (at least by default) last time I looked.

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Re:Android isn't cool with teenagers, and that's a big problem by jfengel on Thursday November 16, 2023 @04:18PM (#38295679)

Is iMessage better?

Sorry, not an iPhone user, so I genuinely don't know. I do my group chats with Google Chat, which seems to work fine. Are there things that I'm missing out on? (Perhaps because it's not an SMS-based service?)

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