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Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by soperj on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:16AM (#38021539)
> Or because he constantly stomps on experienced engineers with stupid ideas and puts the whole thing at risk. Literally EVERYONE said the cement base was a stupid idea and yet Elon had to trump his own experts.

Wouldn't that be called working from first principles? Proving it doesn't work can be quicker in the long run than over-designing something based on what you think won't work.

Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by tigershark on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:47AM (#38021698)
You don’t need to work from first principles to understand that the most powerful (by far) rocket built would obliterate whatever concrete you use without an appropriate water deluge system and/or flame trench.
Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by ben_bai on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:21AM (#38023100)
And now they have to repair the launchsite, which they already did. And add water deluge, which they already did.

The upside was they got lots of data to improve the next rocket, which they already did. It's ready to go again, just waiting for FAA approval.

Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by rbanffy on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:34AM (#38024204)
> The upside was they got lots of data to improve the next rocket,

Or they could have done that the first time with a flame trench and a water deluge system that prevented the energy of the rockets from damaging the rockets dooming the first stage and making concrete rain on the neighboring wildlife reserve.

Elon could have verified that hypothesis with a full static fire test AND be able to see the damage to both rockets and pad from an actual launch without destroying a rocket.

This is why SpaceX grew from the start with an immune system to prevent Elon from ruining too much stuff.

Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by aik on Thursday October 26, 2023 @08:50AM (#38024818)
Is your argument that SpaceX has succeeded despite Elon, not in large part due to Elon?
Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by rbanffy on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:12PM (#38028623)
He assembled a team and they learned to use him in the roles he fits best - getting attention and investment money. He is not a brilliant aerospace engineer.

I believe he’s better observed in Twitter, which is a company that didn’t develop an immune system to deal with him.

Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by nemo on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:58PM (#38030207)
SpaceX and Tesla both enjoyed most success despite Musk's continual rank incompetence by isolating him as the figurehead money guy while puffing his ego letting him cosplay a rocket scientist/tech expert for the press. At both companies he's got handlers to limit and manage the damage he causes. At Twitter he had no handlers and his rank incompetence is on full display, as it was in the PayPal days when he was rightly fired for incompetence.
Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by tigershark on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:50PM (#38032154)
The FAA approval is delayed exactly because of the water deluge system: https://twitter.com/BCCarCounters/status/1717561704689668377
Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by rifty on Thursday October 26, 2023 @08:31AM (#38024661)
https://twitter.com/drphiltill/status/1710096996604723273?s=...

It seems that while the explosion would have been avoided with a deluge or flame trench, it could have also likely just been mitigated with a thicker concrete pad or a vent system.

Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by hef19898 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:35AM (#38023536)
That is why I hate people working from first principle so much: The intentionally ignore decades and centuries of knowledge and experience in fields they don't understand and refuse to accept the fact the resulting failure is their fault. They are very, very quick to claim success so everytime they get lucky and their hairebrained ideas work (mostly only once).
Re:SpaceX Starship Super Heavy Project at the Boca Chica Lau... by Zigurd on Thursday October 26, 2023 @08:35AM (#38024702)
Cybertruck is a "pickup truck"-ish thing designed from first principles.

Iterative implementation works very well for many kinds of software development projects. When an iteration involves 200 tanker trucks carrying fuel and oxidizer and dozens of rocket engines and results in destroying launch infrastructure and dumping debris into wetlands and inhabited areas, one might conclude "iteration" has made the jump from sound engineering principle to management fad dogma.