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Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by rmbyrro on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @08:38AM (#37998287)
Governments took advantage of the extreme fear created after the 9/11 attacks to pass these absurd laws.

I don't think we can call them "laws", because are clearly against the most fundamental values of any democracy.

No country is free anymore. Not even the US, which enjoys bolstering itself as "the free world".

Any freedom you enjoy in a democratic state nowadays is merely circumstantial and can disappear instantly at any moment.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by karmakurtisaani on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:27AM (#37998897)
"You don't have rights, you have temporary privileges."

(George Carlin)

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by soco on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:34AM (#37998967)
Basically agreeing with you, I want only to add that I don't believe it was freer earlier - just people less informed.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by mikrotikker on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:00PM (#38008264)
FISA and the patriot Act and NSLs did not increase the freedom did they?
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:56AM (#37999240)
They're not laws, they're the exemption of laws, just like outlaws - "a person declared as outside the protection of the law". Terrorist means you're not protected by the law, do not get rights, don't fall under the Geneva Convention as a prisoner of war, etc. It means you get to go to Guantanamo Bay and rot for two decades without charge or anything.

But it's fine because it's the most powerful country in the world that does it. If anyone objects, they get dropped. If it comes to a vote in e.g. the UN security councel, they use their veto power.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by t0bia_s on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:20PM (#38003972)
"Ignorantia juris non excusat" is precedent for any democratic state. It's there for long time. And it could end your freedom any time if your are not encyclopedia of all current laws, regulations and restrictions of country where you live.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by mikrl on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @09:06AM (#38012369)
Ok but I remember a few occasions where people have got off easy for being ignorant of the law.

I don’t want to be partisan but the most striking example I remember was when Comey weighed in on Secretary Clinton’s email server saying “there was no criminal intent”

If you’re ignorant of the law, you cannot have a criminal intent, or am I missing something?

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by t0bia_s on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @01:30PM (#38015519)
How you can possible know 2 milions regulations, restrictions and laws that we now have in state where I live? It's not humanly possible.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by sobkas on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @06:15PM (#38019047)
> "Ignorantia juris non excusat" is precedent for any democratic state. It's there for long time. And it could end your freedom any time if your are not encyclopedia of all current laws, regulations and restrictions of country where you live.

In USA if police doesn't know it breaks your rights it cannot be sued directly. Qualified immunity I think. So ignorance is a shield if you have a shield.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by dragonwriter on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @06:25PM (#38019127)
> In USA if police doesn't know it breaks your rights it cannot be sued directly. Qualified immunity I think.

This is a misstatement of the rule. Qualified immunity applies if the alleged action would not have violated a "clearly established Constitutional right", which does not depend on the personal knowledge of the individual being sued. (It's also applies to all public employees/officers, not just police, though its application in the domain of policing has frequently been controversial.)

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by jkaplowitz on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:02PM (#38007875)
I agree with you in general, but regarding this specific phrase in this specific context:

> Governments took advantage of the extreme fear created after the 9/11 attacks to pass these absurd laws.

Unless I misunderstand the legislative history, the law that was used here (Schedule 7 to the Terrorism Act 2000) dates from July 2000, so before 9/11.

Still part of the same trend as what happened after 9/11, of course, but we shouldn’t pretend 9/11 was the beginning of this, especially not in the UK.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by mikrotikker on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:56PM (#38008229)
Yes they took legislation Joe Biden wrote and tweaked it a little which is why they came up with the patriot Act so quickly following the attacks.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by anigbrowl on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:02PM (#38008656)
Not everything in the world revolves around the USA. The UK had an ongoing terrorism problem in Northern Ireland, and had instituted plenty of draconian laws of its own pursuant to that, even before Biden became a Senator in 1972.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by 3seashells on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @02:22AM (#38009761)
The terrorism history is not much more than a pretext though. The source of these draconian Laws are highly stratified societies, with inept elites for seeing troubled times and accidentally accelerating them.
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by fragmede on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:34PM (#38008478)
> especially not in the UK.

For US readers who weren't taught this in history class, the UK suffered a number of terrorist attacks by the IRA from the 1970's til roughly 2001.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings...

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by boppo1 on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @12:49AM (#38009241)
>No country is free anymore.

I was just thinking about this, imagining being indefinitely detained for terrorism because 4chan is in my browser history[0]. I'd take the fifth, and they would charge me with a crime, and so, the US Constitution is basically void.

But then I wondered: was it ever really not? Was there ever a time I could have relied on legal justice if I happen to be in an unsympathetic jurisdiction? Before there was an unconstitutional terrorism act, there would still probably have been DAs willing to look the other way on a police beating and willing to add bogus criminal charges because I'm uncooperative.

Has justice ever been reliable? Right now it seems like maybe it has always been a psychological blanket.

[0]hyperbolic obviously. Hopefully. Just a thought experiment, as that's the only/closest activity of mine that could be construed as terrorism.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by coolThingsFirst on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @04:58AM (#38010748)
Why is 4chan so dangerous? Isnt it just an image board?
Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by boppo1 on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @09:55AM (#38012817)
It's kinda like reddit in that there's multiple boards with a broad array of topics. A few of the boards regularly have threads with pretty extreme racism/hate. Recently the president of a Detroit synagogue was stabbed to death outside her home and there were multiple threads openly celebrating the murder. But elsewhere on the site people are sharing clips of cute cows doing cute cow things.

As a more specific example of why it's 'dangerous', a recent meme I've seen a bunch tells the reader that if they are drafted (in a theoretical future US draft), the moral thing to do is to shoot officers as soon as you get a rifle.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by coolThingsFirst on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @05:56PM (#38018902)
Why would that implicate you on terrorism charges?

You aren't responsible for what people post online. Anyone can post anything on a forum and you may be looking at it because of other interesting stuff doesn't mean you have bad intentions.

I think it's mainly paranoia, I still think the odds of falsely being charged with terrorism are incredibly low.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by boppo1 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:12AM (#38024059)
>odds of falsely being charged with terrorism are incredibly low.

Right now, sure. I'm merely speculating about the future.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday October 26, 2023 @06:25PM (#38032478)
> Why would that implicate you on terrorism charges?

They might be referring to a couple decades ago when 4chan users were referred to as "domestic terrorists" in a hyperbolic fox news report

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by bratbag on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @02:16AM (#38009716)
That was always the case. Otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation now.

Rights are arbitrary limits made up by people which can be changed or eliminated by people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by herbst on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @04:18AM (#38010504)
> No country is free anymore. Not even the US, which enjoys bolstering itself as "the free world".

Especially the US. My government has no rights to do anything like that. Please don't project your non freedom to the world.

Re:I Face Investigation for Terrorism by rmbyrro on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:55AM (#38023637)
I'm not from the US, btw