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Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by m-p-3 on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @10:57PM (#37937771)
Personally I strip the DRM of all the ebooks and movies I buy (not rent of course).

Enough with the "bought, but actually renting with an undetermined end date".

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by samplatt on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:06PM (#37937841)
Was looking at this the other night but didn't have enough skin in the game to reliably blindly-trust external tools to do this for me - I expect that something designed to circumvent encryption is going to come with a very high malware risk.

Any resources/tools/tutorials you'd recommend?

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Qwertious on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:19PM (#37937933)
Generally speaking, people use the DeDRM plugin for Calibre. Link omitted for legal reasons.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Condition1952 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:49AM (#37939389)
Is it illegal to charge a URL on your country? You might want to try to share a Google search
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Havoc on Thursday October 19, 2023 @03:43AM (#37939731)
Noting that the newer books require additional modules to get around the KFX encryption

Even then I’ve found around 5% don’t decrypt

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by southernplaces7 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:29AM (#37941365)
legal reasons? Seriously, has the DRM mafia cowed people so much? What the hell is wrong with sharing public software tools with others?

Here's one option you might try (no connection to it but it seems to be one of the most recently usable, trustworthy versions) https://github.com/noDRM/DeDRM_tools

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by the__alchemist on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:21PM (#37937948)
FYSA for anyone used to this: It doesn't work on Amazon books published in 2023+.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by themadturk on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:23PM (#37937959)
Yeah, this is what made me abandon Amazon for Kobo.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by larme on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:31PM (#37938010)
It think this should still work for Kobo ebook?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by themadturk on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:35PM (#37938035)
Kobo books use a completely different DRM, Adobe Digital Editions. It is apparently easier to strip DRM from these books than from Amazon.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by piperswe on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:44PM (#37938090)
Doesn't it still work if you download the book file for a Kindle from the website, then plug your Kindle serial number into DeDRM?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by izacus on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:36AM (#37938482)
They've been closing down those loopholes over the years.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by marcus_holmes on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:48PM (#37938123)
Easy: stop buying books from Amazon
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by pjmlp on Thursday October 19, 2023 @04:12AM (#37939953)
Doesn't help when the alternative is to buy on paper, and it is a 1000 page tome.

Even on IT related ebooks, some authors only publish their ebooks on Amazon.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by m463 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:24AM (#37938370)
I thought this was just kindle unlimited books, not purchased books.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ptman on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:45AM (#37938552)
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by snailmailman on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:38AM (#37938897)
There are workarounds for this change now. I don’t remember the details, but there is a way to strip drm from 2023 books. It’s a relatively recent development I think. Did not even require a physical kindle. (I think for a while the only method did require one)
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by criddell on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:04AM (#37940725)
The workaround for a while was to have an old version of the Kindle for PC software on your computer and download the flies from there. You would get older versions that had crackable DRM.

They’ve pretty much closed this loophole. IIRC now you need an older physical Kindle that doesn’t support KFX files and you can download files for that device.

It’s still a crappy workaround because the older file format doesn’t have any of the latest typography features.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by pierat on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:05PM (#37937834)
It's much cheaper and freedom-maintaining if you just pirate.

And paying sends the message of "I'm OK with DRM shittified media, abuse me more!"

Stripping DRM is also illegal under DMCA. Might as well just pirate and call it a day. Either way you mention leaves you illegal

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Qwertious on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:19PM (#37937938)
Also, there's nothing strictly speaking preventing you from mailing $20 to the author of the book you pirated; it's just inconvenient.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by __MatrixMan__ on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:49PM (#37938133)
I'd participate in something that made that more convenient. I imagine dedicating $30 /mo for "contributions to content creators". Then I move bits around on my terms, and at the end of the month, that money is allocated among creators based on how often their content was hashed by my reader.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ClassyJacket on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:58PM (#37938196)
I think not knowing their address probably
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by phantomathkg on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:13AM (#37938301)
I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by nobody9999 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:26AM (#37938394)
>I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal?

It is not illegal to mail cash within the US, unless you're trying to avoid paying taxes/launder money.

Not sure about other countries, a cursory web search didn't turn up anything useful.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by NavinF on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:26AM (#37939224)
What countries are you thinking of? I can't think of a single one where that's the case
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ernesth on Thursday October 19, 2023 @10:52AM (#37943704)
Not parent, but it is forbidden in France: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000028154450...
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by MrVandemar on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:00AM (#37938661)
But the author is only one of the many people who are involved in the production of a book. Editing. Typesetting. Cover design. Cover art. Marketing. Arguably, all of those things are important and contribute to an author's success.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:43AM (#37938941)
And when those people give me a low friction way to pay them without supporting DRM, I will gladly do so. Of note, none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy of a paper book. Piracy is no different here.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:05AM (#37942340)
> none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy

Yes, which is why nobody is saying "buy second-hand books to support your favorite author".

Also, it's probably a small effect, but I'd guess that the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales (since the buyers know they will probably be able to resell a book if they need to, making them more likely to buy a primary copy if they want to read it right now).

Somebody paid for a second-hand copy, nobody paid for a pirated copy.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @12:55PM (#37945369)
"the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales"

Incidentally, many favorite books that I pirated when I was broke and had very little room, I later bought paper copies of.

I also pirate most music, but if I really like a band I discovered via piracy, I will buy their vinyl or see them in concert.

The ability to freely share content scondhand, be it a paper book or in digital form, creates new fans. Some of those fans have money to give back, or will share with people that do.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by kstrauser on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:06AM (#37939092)
Doesn’t the publisher pay them a flat fee?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by xbmcuser on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:29AM (#37938847)
I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar where we can send them money without someone else taking a big cut. A lot of superfluous charges are put still put for money transfer today so even something like patreon can cost 8-10% of what they recieve. How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Moru on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:44AM (#37938946)
I believe Ko-fi is not taking a cut but has it's own tip-jar.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:16AM (#37942456)
> How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits.

Because they provide a platform (making content more visible), payment processing (which can be 3% or more for some payment methods), customer support etc.

If content producers don't need any of that, they can always have a self-hosted website with their own donation button (or physical mailing address for checks and banknotes, cryptocurrency address etc).

> I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar

That tip jar would cut out everybody else involved in the production of a book and in getting you to even find out about it existing.

Every author has the option to self-publish and set their own price (including a "pay-as-you-wish" option), but on the other hand, if they prefer the (relatively) lower risk of going with a traditional publisher, you should also respect that decision and not sidestep that by unilaterally deciding that "oh, I'd prefer you would have made this DRM-free and pay-as-you-wish, here's a check for $20!".

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by __MatrixMan__ on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:44AM (#37942823)
The way to solve that is to have the "tip jar" be a smart contract which redistributes inbound money transparently. I don't have a problem with funding the supporting parties, I just don't want the pie to be divvied up behind closed doors where my decision to contribute might end up working against my interests.

If somebody puts together a different tip jar which supports and even wider variety of people, or does so in a more equitable way, I want to be free to choose that one instead.

Let content compete for legitimacy based on how integrated into the wider community it's associated tip jar is.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:54AM (#37942953)
But what if that’s the way the author has decided to do things?

Not everybody wants a tip jar. Why should you get to impose your views over that of the author who’s book you want to read?

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by __MatrixMan__ on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:07PM (#37945534)
Because I'm the one reading it.

I don't care if they think I should read it in a couch or a hammock or a bathtub, why should I care whether they think I should print it on a page or project it on my ceiling or peer at it through a cloud of malware?

There are people who want to turn the world into a skinner box. I'm not going to fund their project just because I appreciate an author who has made a deal with them at some point.

If I can't pay an author without also paying my enemies, then I'm not going to pay the author. But I'd really rather pay the author.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by xbmcuser on Friday October 20, 2023 @05:30AM (#37953988)
I think many people are stuck in the cash mindset so it seems okay to them that they pay 2-3% in fees for an electric transfer. Where transporting $100 million and $1 would cost the same I don't understand the percentage fees. This includes credit card processor fees etc. A lot of you I feel sort of have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to stuff like this specially in the US. A lot of this stuff requires government intervention I think as it is impossible for any startup to bring about disruption. In Asian countries where credit cards were not that prevalent new processing systems have brought down the prices to 0.5%-1% which I still think is too high.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ekianjo on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:02AM (#37941149)
Would not make it legal either strictly speaking
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by marcus_holmes on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:51PM (#37938149)
I'm not a lawyer, but I think pirating it is actually more legal (in most jurisdictions) than removing DRM.

As long as you just leech, you're not sharing copyrighted content, and therefore arguably not in breach of copyright.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by southernplaces7 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:32AM (#37941390)
Agreed that torrenting/pirating is practical and simple, but since both downloading pirated books and stripping their DRM are both illegal anyhow, why not learn the minor skills required? After all, somebody somewhere has to post those DRM-stripped books online, so it's at least useful to work on learning the actual trick of doing it instead of depending on others' efforts.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:40AM (#37938919)
Problem with this is it means you are giving money to providers that sell with DRM, that restricts the rights of those not technical enough to circumvent it.

Piracy is more ethical than buying DRM media.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by condwanaland on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:19AM (#37939168)
Yes but this also takes money away from the author, who put in a ton of work to make that book. It's not as simple as claiming the piracy is 'ethical' just because it circumvents the publisher
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Moru on Thursday October 19, 2023 @04:30AM (#37940089)
I buy books and music by writing the author and asking them how to pay directly. This ofcourse only works with very small authors so I'm not buying much any more. Reading and watching movies I do from the local library.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @08:48AM (#37942148)
Do you think that the editor, cover art designer, potentially illustrator etc. don’t deserve to get paid?

I know at least one author that refuses “out-of-band payments” for that reason.

And this is to say nothing about advance payments where the publisher is taking the risk of a book not selling, and the author gets paid regardless, which can be a big thing for small authors too.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by NoGravitas on Thursday October 19, 2023 @11:24AM (#37944174)
I think the idea is that by hurting sales of DRM-ed books relative to DRM-free books, and by increasing the piracy problem only for DRM-ed books, you make it more attractive for publishers to sell DRM-free books, and for authors to apply pressure to their publishers in that direction. Of course, you have to put your money where your mouth is by actually buying books from DRM-free publishers (like Baen and Tor).
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:00PM (#37945430)
So we should ban libraries, book scanning, and used book sales too?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by condwanaland on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:32PM (#37950208)
No, because the book was still bought in the first place. In all your examples someone still bought a book which helped ensure the creators of it got paid.

Using piracy from the beginning ensures nobody gets paid.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @11:33PM (#37952113)
The book that was scanned and shared with others, was also bought in the first place. Piracy sites are just decentralized libraries.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by condwanaland on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:44AM (#37953696)
Yes, but these secondary markets have been fine because they still require a large primary market.

A library can only lend as many copies as it purchases. Someone selling their copy can only sell the copy they purchased. These secondaries are constrained by the primary.

Your talking about one person buying a single copy and then distributing it for free in perpetuity. This secondary is not constrained by the primary.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by justsomehnguy on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:32AM (#37939267)
> Piracy is more ethical than buying DRM media.

Only if you sent $$ to the author/s.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @08:55AM (#37942220)
And the editor, illustrator and promoters as well.

And don't forget to send a larger chunk money to other new prospective authors that you don't know and that haven't even sold a single copy of their book (or maybe not even finished it yet)!

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by pipo234 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @04:33AM (#37940110)
> Problem with this is it means you are giving money to providers that sell with DRM

Indeed. And also do not underestimate the cost of adding DRM to media. Don't know about ebooks, but for streaming media I would estimate about half the engineering time spent designing, building and maintaining video work flows is somehow related to CENC, CBCS, Widevine, Playready, Fairplay and the whole ecosystem of third party consultancy around this.

For larger platforms these investments are worthwhile, but I don't think it's a coincidence that smaller audio shops and podcasts generally avoid DRM for streaming audio (where margins are smaller than Live/On demand video streaming).

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by looping8 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:01AM (#37940711)
How is it more ethical if you don't pay for the product and no money goes to the author? Writers always say that preorders and direct purchases really matter. Of course DRM is bad, but why is piracy ethical in this case?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ekianjo on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:00AM (#37941126)
Its ethical as you dont contribute to bad incentives which is the lock down of information behind DRM. Profits motives come after such considerations.

We have been living millenia without DRM protection of books so I would wager the justification of their necessity is dubious at best.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by tap-snap-or-nap on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:50AM (#37941586)
Does the author pay every person they got all their ideas from ? We are talking about very complex one to many relationships that are practically unaccountable.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:27PM (#37946616)
Piracy gives the same amount to the author as borrowing from a friend or from the library. It is just more efficient.

I 100% always pay for books available without DRM such as from No Starch Press. I encourage any authors reading to consider similarly ethical publishers.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by myaccountonhn on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:36AM (#37940954)
> Piracy is more ethical than buying DRM media.

Not buying it nor download it illegally would be the ethical stance.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by ekianjo on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:58AM (#37941113)
Illegality is not an absolute value so it had no place in a discussion about ethics. Many laws are ethically wrong.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lxgr on Thursday October 19, 2023 @08:51AM (#37942173)
Then let's just call it "acquiring the book in a way that you don't know if the people involved in creating the book would consent to, but have a lot of evidence to suspect that they actually don't".
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by concordDance on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:49AM (#37941584)
From the author's perspective the latter is better (possible word of mouth sales and authoes generally like the idea of people reading and enjoying their writing), so not sure how that works out ethically.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by myaccountonhn on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:27AM (#37942597)
If it's better for them, I suggest asking for permission first, I'm sure they'll be positive to the idea.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by concordDance on Thursday October 19, 2023 @11:25AM (#37944195)
How would you prove you weren't going to buy it?

That's the crucial difference between choosing what you think is right and using an external source, you have access to your thoughts while they don't.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:57PM (#37949948)
A lot of the bands I follow openly support people pirating their music at shows, because those people are ticket and merch buying fans.

Some bands have been scolded and threatened by their publishers for said public voice, and instead choose silence as they could be sued by their producers/publishers.

Creators I have contacted about DRM almost never reply. Likely for similar contractual reasons. They can only legally respond with scolding or silence.

I did have one artist I contacted reply once. They were Christian and all but said I would go to hell for sharing copies of someone elses work.

I asked how they felt about Jesus replicating and freely sharing someone else's bread and fish. They never replied again.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by pierat on Thursday October 19, 2023 @09:08AM (#37942372)
So are public libraries just as "unethical"?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by myaccountonhn on Thursday October 19, 2023 @03:21PM (#37947421)
Public libraries typically don’t publish without permission from publishers or authors, there is a difference there.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by lrvick on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:01PM (#37945445)
So libraries are unethical too? Borrowing a paper book from friends?
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by myaccountonhn on Friday October 20, 2023 @05:53AM (#37954140)
Libraries get the books from distributors and have licenses for lending them. I’d say that is perfectly ethical.

In my country, you have a legal right to share copies to close friends. I think that’s ethical, but I don’t think it’s ethical when people mass download someone’s work without paying them when they were charging for it.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by nahkoots on Thursday October 19, 2023 @01:14PM (#37945630)
Piracy vs. not buying it vs. not downloading it are morally equivalent. The actual ethical stance here is whether or not you're paying for DRM; once you've committed to not doing that, whether or not you choose to pirate it at that point is morally neutral because the effect on the author (and publisher et al.) is the same.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by alwayslikethis on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:03AM (#37941150)
I wish I can just donate to authors whose books I'm pirating without paying Amazon.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by DoingIsLearning on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:08AM (#37939101)
I actually bought a bunch of DVDs of my kids' favorite films to burn and have on my NAS.

And woah! I completely underestimated how much user hostile anti-piracy tech has grown in the past 20 years .

Couldn't even play my DVD, that I bought, with my money, on my computer. Had to install a bunch of libraries to deal with all the file chunking and mangling they do now, just to play a video, not even burning it, just play.

Really raised my blood pressure that one.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by Condition1952 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @02:48AM (#37939379)
Those entrepreneurs are nagging you to look for films online because plastics accumulate forever
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by extraduder_ire on Thursday October 19, 2023 @03:06AM (#37939477)
What extra odd things could they have done to DVDs that would make them harder to rip? I assume they wouldn't want to break compatibility with existing players.

Mainstream DVDs have pretty much always been a collection of .TS files on the disc, best ripped with specialized software. Things like VLC pull in those libraries upon install anyway. Also, I think you mean "rip" rather than "burn", if you mean to copy data from the disc to your machine.

Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by DoingIsLearning on Thursday October 19, 2023 @04:19AM (#37940003)
Today I learned a fair deal, burn!=rip, and that DVDs have always had chunked .ts files. Definitely had to bring in a bunch of new libs on Debian (still on 'bullseye') to make it work, nothing automagic happened.
Re:It is important that ebooks be sold without DRM by jspizziri on Thursday October 19, 2023 @06:12AM (#37940773)
If you haven’t already, you should check out MakeMKV.

You can buy it or use it free with the beta keys, and it should solve your problem.

https://makemkv.com/