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Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by myshpa on Sunday October 08, 2023 @04:30PM (#37814149)
> more definitive action will be taken against climate change

a) our problem is not only the climate change, but overshoot / polycrisis

b) there is a profit to be made even from the collapse, maybe bigger than ever

Nothing will get changed, because solving the problems would mean dismantling the system.

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by bloopernova on Sunday October 08, 2023 @04:55PM (#37814321)
> Nothing will get changed, because solving the problems would mean dismantling the system.

I don't want you to be correct, but I fear that you are. My heart breaks thinking about it. My stepdaughter is 23, and she's going to live through some very tough times.

People in positions of power and influence seem to think they can flee to New Zealand and life will continue as before. I don't know how to disabuse them of that notion.

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by ta988 on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:24PM (#37814548)
A lot of people are making money by building fear in the ultra rich. They are really gullible. Really hard to bring people that have been scammed up to reason.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by lacrimacida on Sunday October 08, 2023 @06:19PM (#37814925)
Fear is being being built everywhere and everyone is very gullible, including the poor.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by myshpa on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:30PM (#37814591)
Maybe the biggest problem is how big a problem it is. It's maybe beyond the capabilities of a regular person to fully comprehend the extent of the problems we're facing.

Overshoot encompasses many aspects, including biodiversity loss, deforestation, pollution, resource depletion, and much more.

The fundamental issue lies in capitalism and the financial system, with its embedded need for constant growth. Almost all money in the system is created through loans by banks, and there is an interest on that money that must be paid, typically around 3% or so, and this interest compounds exponentially.

As a result, our growth is exponential, and there is no sign of it slowing down. Our GDP doubles every 30 years, while our finite natural environment is the first to be sacrificed in an attempt to service one's debts.

We don't see any real debate about degrowth, reforestation, equity, food system, financial system ... no real progress on any front.

Animal species have witnessed a 70% decline in just the last 50 years. How long until our insect and pollinator populations collapse? How long until forests lose their ability to generate rain completely? How long until oceans are devoid of fish or sharks (with 90% already gone), leading to the collapse of the entire marine ecosystem? How long until major crop failures occur?

When hunger and water shortages become widespread, police will give up, wars and slavery and hordes of cannibals will become our daily grim reality. There have been collapses of civilizations before, but there has never been a total collapse of the biosphere as well. So I too worry for the future of today's young.

Sorry for the rant.

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by bloopernova on Sunday October 08, 2023 @06:12PM (#37814865)
Don't ever apologize for caring. I didn't think it was a rant really.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by M95D on Monday October 09, 2023 @02:33AM (#37817558)
> allowing for reforestation that would [...] sequester as much carbon as we've released since the Industrial Revolution.

That's a common mistake. It won't. Plants sequester carbon only while they are alive. When they die, the carbon returns to the atmosphere. A forest, even with that size won't make a significant impact on carbon stored compared to how much oil and coal we burned. The only solution would be to re-create the carbon deposits, but that can't happen anymore.

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by ok_dad on Monday October 09, 2023 @03:59AM (#37818084)
The oil we mined from the ground in about 150 years took hundreds of millions of years to form and from what I recall from the subject, it happened in a time where bacteria and fungus didn’t exist to release that carbon from downed trees Abe plants or whatever. The only way to sequester carbon now would be to spend more energy than was released (putting those bonds back together is hard) from our oil use to create something like inorganic carbon bricks we could try and bury underground somewhere that bacteria and fungus cannot reach.

Good luck to us, I’m not confident we can do it. I’m hoping we can though, I have a toddler. I hate climate deniers, to me they are trying to make my son’s life worse and worse because they don’t want their life to be lesser than they expected.

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by SirMaster on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:08PM (#37814426)
So if it’s inevitable, what are the possible positive effects?

Are there regions that benefit from the changes that will happen to the weather?

New places that can be used to grow things, new places that might be more appealing to live than it is now?

Should we start looking at transitioning to the changes that you say are inevitable?

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by myshpa on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:34PM (#37814621)
I see no positive effects. We should try to prevent the inevitable, while there's still some time. Not long. But some.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by SirMaster on Sunday October 08, 2023 @06:33PM (#37815028)
What do you mean though when you say you see no positive effects?

You see negative effects because scientists who have spent great time and effort have found connections to and predicted negative effects.

Has anyone spent a similar amount of time and effort looking for positive effects? If not, how can we expect to know about any positive effects?

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by p1mrx on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:19PM (#37814514)
> Nothing will get changed, because solving the problems would mean dismantling the system.

For now, American citizens can ask congress to support a carbon fee and dividend [1], which would create a financial incentive for the system to dismantle itself. There are few forces in the world more powerful than individuals deciding to save money.

[1] https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy...

Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by pixl97 on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:24PM (#37814550)
Congress doesn't even have a speaker of the house to put forth a bill to vote on.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by p1mrx on Sunday October 08, 2023 @05:37PM (#37814641)
Sounds like they'll have plenty of time to read some email.
Re:New study definitively confirms gulf stream weakening by lacrimacida on Sunday October 08, 2023 @06:17PM (#37814912)
> Nothing will get changed, because solving the problems would mean dismantling the system

Oh well, the system may simply collapse and not be able and it won’t be pretty. But that will be a starting point for rebuilding.