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Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by r721 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @10:44AM (#37802131)
>EDITOR’S NOTE 10/6/2023: After careful review of the op-ed, "How Google Alters Search Queries to Get at Your Wallet," and relevant material provided to us following its publication, WIRED editorial leadership has determined that the story does not meet our editorial standards. It has been removed.

https://www.wired.com/story/google-antitrust-lawsuit-search-...

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37740425 (4 days ago, 119 comments)

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by buran77 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:26AM (#37802522)
> relevant material provided to us

Sure would be nice if the material was provided to us too. Or write an article explaining clearly how the original info was misconstrued. Simply deleting it (edit: instead of replacing it with a clarification so anyone who goes to read the wrong info gets the corrected one) really sends a wrong message, both about Wired and Google.

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by r721 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:35AM (#37802583)
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by tyingq on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:25PM (#37803059)
"The organic (IE: non-sponsored) results you see in Search are not affected by our ads systems."

Uh, other than being pushed off the visible page, I guess?

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by hn_throwaway_99 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:40PM (#37803204)
That's a very fair point, and I've complained about that degradation on Google many, many times over the years on HN, but I also don't think that's what Google was responding to. The Wired article has been taken down, but I'm assuming it was arguing that Google would change organic results to get more ad clicks. Google is saying here that ad results and organic results are 2 independent, orthogonal systems.

Again, your point is one I strongly agree with, but it's also taken out-of-context with respect to the article Google was responding to.

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by tyingq on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:36PM (#37803725)
I think there's also a case for neglecting the quality of organics, while investing highly in the quality of ad targeting. So it's not quite as twirling-mustachio villain feeling, it has roughly the same effect.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by judge2020 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:32PM (#37803125)
Yep. It's obvious that they design for you to click ads, but it was fairly rocky suggesting that the backend reaches out to the ad system. This wouldn't just destroy results, but also run afoul of FCC Ad disclosure requirements.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by zo1 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:32PM (#37805275)
So is no one questioning that maybe the search subsystem talks to the "website score" (or whatever it's called in Google-speak), to determine if it's relevant? And perhaps that score is influenced by how many valid ads there are.

Maybe the score is simply highly-correlated with a site that shows many google ads? Think about it, someone that shows Google ads happens to also be very very keen on optimizing everything that affects their rankings in Google searches.

Hey Google, perhaps "displaying many Google ads" should be a negative on page-rank?

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by judge2020 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:49PM (#37805428)
Regardless, the Wired piece had no evidence and didn't make a claim on the same basis as what you're suggesting. The opinion author mistook this feature by thinking it applied to organic results: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/10286719?hl=en
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by wolverine876 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:12PM (#37803485)
The 'visible page' isn't a finite length.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by tyingq on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:37PM (#37803740)
I'm not sure what point you're making. Is it just that I didn't say "currently visible portion of the page, the part you see without deliberate scrolling"?
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by matt74827289 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:17PM (#37803533)
It's not fixed, but it is finite. No infinite sized screen exists
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by wolverine876 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:38PM (#37803747)
If they mean it's forced off the screen, not the page, that makes sense.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by jppittma on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:53PM (#37805461)
People don't click on or look at anything past the top 5 results anymore. They just refine the query.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by pierat on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:30AM (#37802549)
"Remove it or we'll see you in court!"

Or

"Your search rankings are high. Sure'd be ashamed of you got deindexed."

(Google's likely response as 'relevant material')

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by ludwik on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:49PM (#37803299)
Or maybe simply "the information is demonstrably untrue and we can prove it"?
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by pierat on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:54PM (#37803355)
That's the nice way to cheat with AI. It takes a probabilistic set of inquiries to discern the truth.

And right now, I'm in my states capitol, looking for a restaurant... Using Google maps. And when I searched for restaurants, was given an advertised 'optimized' curated set of restaurants. And within walking distance, they're missing easily half of the restaurants.

Now, which half are they missing? The small one-off places just aren't here on a search. HOWEVER, if you zoom in all the way, then those less-indexed restaurants FINALLY show up.

I'm sitting in 1 of those deindexed eateries right now. So yeah, the article's true and has been for a while now.

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by granzymes on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:21PM (#37803580)
The relevant material was almost certainly the slide that the article was mischaracterizing: https://twitter.com/adamkovac/status/1710041764910846061

I wish WIRED had included this context in their retraction statement…

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by spondylosaurus on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:37AM (#37802606)
For context, the WIRED op-ed was written by a DuckDuckGo executive. I can certainly imagine the incentive there for DDG to misrepresent Google's behavior (and as I was reading the article, most of it struck me as speculation more than anything).
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by yegg on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:48AM (#37802687)
This person is not employed by DuckDuckGo. They formerly worked there, and not for a couple of years. We had nothing to do with this op-ed.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by hackernewds on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:13PM (#37802933)
Mere employment does not negate that the person might still have financial incentives tied to DDG. If anything, they might be concealed better and are MORE likely they can publish with conflict of interest, without legal risk.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by whycome on Saturday October 07, 2023 @12:23PM (#37803032)
You're right. And on the other hand, someone with passion and knowledge about the domain will likely be working for one of its major players at some point.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by Angostura on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:08PM (#37803439)
Are claiming that the author still does have financial links to DDG? That's quite an accusation.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by frde on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:20PM (#37803578)
Is it such a ridiculous idea that a former executive might have stock options or some kind of lingering financial stake? Worth at least investigating.
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by WarOnPrivacy on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:38PM (#37803748)
With laser precise specificity, what - exactly - are you inferring she did?
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by labster on Saturday October 07, 2023 @02:30PM (#37804269)
Beware isolated demands for rigor
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by lazide on Saturday October 07, 2023 @03:40PM (#37804870)
Including this one?

We don’t know, but it does seem like a reasonable suspicion?

Little DDG would necessarily have to do with it either.

Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by Rastonbury on Saturday October 07, 2023 @01:09PM (#37803454)
In the article, it stated she was an ex-DDG employee
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by 1270018080 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @11:31AM (#37802557)
The relevant information: Google’s legal team
Re:Wired has removed "How Google Alters Search Queries" story by jeroenhd on Saturday October 07, 2023 @07:20PM (#37806352)
> It has been removed

Okay, but where is its correction? If you, as a professional publication that considers itself to publish news, unintentionally spread misinformation, you shouldn't just take down the old links, you should put out a new piece with the correct information (and give it just as much attention, don't hide it away).

The news came out, everybody got mad, and not half the people who read the original article (or headline) will revisit the articles and see the retraction.

Maybe the correction will come later, but I'll stay sceptical of anything Wired has to say until the correction comes out.