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Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by nine_k on Saturday September 30, 2023 @04:41AM (#37713683)
I suppose it follows the pattern of nationality names, and more general ethnic or geographical groups, like "Japanese", or "American", or "African"'. Please note that not all Africans have black skin (look at Egypt or Libya), and not all people with black skin are Africans (see India, Micronesia, Philippines, etc). So, to my mind, "Black" with a capital B is not people with black skin. They are by far not all black-skinned people, but a particular geographic and cultural unity, the ancestors of Africans that were brought to the US, enslaved, freed, discriminated against, etc. I won't think that e.g. modem Nigerians, who likely share a lot of distant ancestry with the US Blacks, would find much cultural common ground with them (on top of the fact that Nigeria is highly culturally diverse internally).

So, if you wanted a capital W whites, that likely would be WASPs, also a specific cultural and geographical unity of white-skinned people, but by far not all white people.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by idontwantthis on Saturday September 30, 2023 @04:47AM (#37713717)
Thanks for explaining. I’ve been confused about this and now it makes a lot of sense.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by michalu on Saturday September 30, 2023 @04:58AM (#37713767)
Does it count if you're ancestor of one of the black slave owners? E.g. this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellison? just curious.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by nine_k on Sunday October 01, 2023 @06:59PM (#37731839)
I would say that {grand}children are not responsible for what their {grand}[parents have done. They physically cannot be complicit.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by olalonde on Saturday September 30, 2023 @04:59AM (#37713775)
The criticism is that putting people in buckets based on their DNA and ancestry is what racists do and not something that we should encourage and normalize in 2023. We should minimize the importance of ethnicity and race, not emphasize it. As a staunch individualist and someone who fervently opposes racism, it's disheartening to observe the USA trending in such a direction.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by viraptor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:41AM (#37713949)
No. Treating them worse based on which bucket you put them in is racist. Taking about various segments of population, what specific issues they experience and why is not that.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by lionkor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:47AM (#37713971)
Thats not what "racism" is. While its one way to define racism, the most general and eay to understand one is

racism: > The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes.

And that is what you're doing. Its not about oppression or discrimination, its about the (wrong) belief that each race has some intrinsic properties. When you start with this, you eventually end up putting people of different races on a pedestal, which does inadvertently discriminate against another race.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by viraptor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @07:25AM (#37714413)
> The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes. / And that is what you're doing.

I'm not sure where you got that from. Did you respond to the right message?

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by lionkor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @09:02AM (#37714997)
"You" as in, not you specifically, but you who you're arguing for (maybe this doesnt work in English, sorry!)
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by viraptor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @09:28AM (#37715260)
That is definitely not what I'm arguing for. I think you completely misunderstood my comment.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by abenga on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:29AM (#37713902)
Hand wringing about "placing people in buckets" is one the last things we need to worry about when it comes to dealing with racism and it's effect on victims of racism. Like, "now we are colourblind, hooray! racism is finished!" While ignoring how disadvantaged people who suffered discrimination in the past (and still do) continue to feel the effects of institutionalised racism, regardless of any changes in law.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by olalonde on Saturday September 30, 2023 @07:27AM (#37714421)
I know the intentions are noble but the alternative approach promotes the idea that racial groups are very real and matter. I grew up in a place where colorblindness was the prevalent philosophy and somehow, racism was much less of a problem than what I've witnessed in the USA. People of different colors mixed up and race or skin color was almost never mentioned. I can't help but have a suspicion that people who are so incredulous at the idea of "colorblindness" are simply projecting their own racist beliefs (e.g. "I am not colorblind... how could anyone be?").

Finally, people alive today who were direct victims of institutionalized racism should be compensated individually. However, I take issue with the idea of assigning benefits or penalties based on factors beyond an individual's control, such as one's ancestors' or genetic makeup. If the idea is to help less fortunate people, we should develop programs that help less fortunate people, regardless of their genetics or ancestry.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by abenga on Saturday September 30, 2023 @12:15PM (#37716867)
Noticing that someone is a member of a racial (or any other group) is benign. It is just a fact, nothing more. What you do with that information is what matters. As an individual, I can claim that I am colour/gender/whatever-blind but _in the world that exists_, that is just ignoring what certain groups of people are experiencing from other people who are not as agnostic to these characteristics as you claim to be.

Also, I doubt that there is any place on earth that is colourblind and somehow race is not a problem. And no, "nobody speaks about it =/= the problem does not exist. Most countries have some issues with race, are largely homogeneous (sometimes despite spending decades brutally exploiting countries with other races a century or two ago), or have a long-running kerfuffle with some local minority.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by yieldcrv on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:39AM (#37713938)
> I suppose it follows the pattern of nationality names

why not Ask HN, there are black people here. what's interesting to me is that your interpretation prioritizes things that aren't really factors, and some child comments are already trying to mold that into their unworkable world view.

the only person triggered is the top level comment and thats the non sequitur on its own.

Black and black are equally benign adjectives and interchangeable, it doesn't need to be rationalized. the absence of capitalized white is an editorial choice, be the change you want to see?

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by lionkor on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:44AM (#37713960)
What does it mean to be 'African', then? Or 'Asian'? Its the same kind of racist shit, literally separating people based on some random property.

I know the US is the world leader in backwards decisions that ignore history (while virtue signalling harder than ever before), and then being as racist as possible ("but in a good way!!!!"), but this is just sad now.

If I speak to someone, I don't ask "Are you black? Are you a woman? Were your ancestors oppressed (particularly in the west, anything else doesnt matter, see past enslavement of slavic people)?". If it matters so much to you what race someone is, or what ancestry they have, that is not a healthy way to treat people. It's the same thing as racism, its literally, by definition, the same thing.

There is a reason people in a lot of countries like Germany fight for everyone to stop using "Black" to describe someone, and instead refer to them as an individual like they are. History will repeat itself if you keep separating people based on their ethnicity

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by nathanaldensr on Saturday September 30, 2023 @07:38AM (#37714489)
You've discovered the diseases that are intersectionality, grievance culture, and identitarianism.
Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by dang on Sunday October 01, 2023 @04:26PM (#37730279)
If you keep posting ideological battle/flamewar comments to HN, we're going to have to ban you. Regardless of which ideology you're for or against, it destroys what this site is supposed to be for.

I don't want to ban you, so if you'd review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this, that would be good.

We've already had to warn you a bunch of times, including recently:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37561065 (Sept 2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35920403 (May 2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33014228 (Sept 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30086559 (Jan 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19830614 (May 2019)

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by zozbot234 on Saturday September 30, 2023 @05:55AM (#37714002)
> So, if you wanted a capital W whites, that likely would be ... a specific cultural and geographical unity of white-skinned people, but by far not all white people.

Thing is, white immigrants' national identities were largely, um, white-washed in the late-19th thru mid-20th c., as part of Progressive ideals that back then were quite racially slanted, and included such things as eugenics. German immigrants were especially affected by this for obvious reasons, but not only. So the argument for capital-W 'White' is hardly any weaker than for capital-B 'Black'.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by zajio1am on Saturday September 30, 2023 @08:06AM (#37714669)
Well, it would be consistent to use 'Black' for black Americans, and 'black' for black people in general, and likewise 'White' for white Americans, and 'white' for white people in general.

But then articles should use, based on context, both 'Black' and 'White', or both 'black' and 'white', while rarely it makes sense to use 'Black' and 'white' in one article, but that is the pattern used by newspapers.

Re:Tesla sued for severe harassment of Black workers at Cali... by amelius on Sunday October 01, 2023 @04:15AM (#37723865)
But if this is true, then they should complain about the word "black" rather than about the capital "B".