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A comment on EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals. Parent comment

Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by quickco on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @06:45PM (#37666847)
> iOS is a fantastic operating system. iPhone and iPad are stellar hardware with brilliant physical UX. Apple Watch is leagues beyond anything else in its class. I will keep buying Apple stuff until I can't anymore.

People want Apple’s quality, reliability and performance, but also want no restrictions so they can run any app and install anything.

Those things aren’t compatible.

E.g., Windows and Linux (Desktop distros) don’t have many restrictions. But they can be unreliable.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:02PM (#37667026)
Yes, let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room, and jump to Windows and Linux to straw-man an argument. There are “no restrictions”, one can “install anything” and “run any app” on that, and still it is … “reliable”?

But actually both Windows and Linux are “reliable” too. Windows is much, much stable in terms of backwards compatibility than macOS and certainly iOS. Linux is so reliable that it runs about 99.9% of the server, appliance and mobile world.

Windows has lost its design forte (peaked in Windows 7), but so has Apple’s claim on design. macOS is a mishmash of OK, bad and worse, as is iOS.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by coldtea on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:13PM (#37667158)
>let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room

The worst experiences on macOS come from companies with enough clout to piss on the standard mechanisms. Installing their BS installers, having "updaters" to run on the background, not shipping a DMG or PKG, asking you to disable the SIP, never bothering to update to newer APIs, not using the Mac App Store, and so on...

(and it's usually some of the more expensive software)

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by Apocryphon on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:21PM (#37667255)
Well, given that mobile is a much newer platform, and a lot more regulatory scrutiny than desktop, perhaps the itchy regulators at the EU and the current FTC might be predisposed to go after those companies, especially since most of them are already in their crosshairs for other misdeeds. I don't think regulators are going to be asleep at the wheel and just let Meta force users to use a Facebook store stuffed with trackers.

Not to mention, what if Apple still exerted influence over alternative app stores by providing the SDK and certified security/privacy standards for them to build them?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37667144

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:57PM (#37667632)
Facebook’s shady coding in the past was all using sanctioned APIs, including the VPN it was using to spy on teens. With a private store also goes the static analysis of private API usage, which can enable software some looser restrictions (but not much, as some fear—most stuff is protected for at the kernel level).
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by Apocryphon on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:00PM (#37667676)
Maybe static analysis can be imposed at the OS level, like macOS notarization?

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin...

I don't think the regulators are going to mandate that Apple not retain any consumer-protecting mechanisms.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:09PM (#37667769)
See my comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37667740

Static analysis is very easy to be fooled. iOS security comes from its kernel enforcement by means of entitlements, which you can’t easily break.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by Apocryphon on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:14PM (#37667831)
Given that it’s already present in App Store apps as you say would show that the App Store itself, and perhaps the current app review process, is insufficient!
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:32PM (#37668015)
I don’t know. It’s a cat and mouse game, and you can only win in such games if you don’t play. By moving the security from static analysis to kernel, Apple has sidestepped most malicious API mishaps. My project isn’t malicious, it just uses API not as intended, but it can do little malice in wrong hands. I think this is a good system overall.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:15PM (#37667186)
Like on a possible iOS future, “don’t support what you don’t want to support”. You have the choice. Unlike current iOS, where some boogie-man chose for you.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by coldtea on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:19PM (#37667235)
That's like "having the choice" to decide how to defend and protect yourself in a shithole city of competing kingpins and anarchy (the bad kind, not the theory of government) in the streets, vs having a police.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by sensanaty on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:20AM (#37671691)
I sadly have to use a Macbook for my dev job and I've literally never come across anything you're mentioning here, I can't see how any regular user would be coerced into disabling SIP
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by coldtea on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:37AM (#37671820)
Perhaps because you're "sadl" using a Macbook "for your dev job". Meaning, you just run some IDE or whatever.

Try the wider enterprise and creative app market, and you'll find out.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by irusensei on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:26AM (#37671746)
And that's why I use Citrix through an UTM Mac VM. That installer will create at least 3 background services running on root plus the app protection hooks (which happily run on a vm from which I can do pretty much it is meant to prevent through the host OS).
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by shuckles on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:32PM (#37667377)
Calling Windows reliable and saying professionals manage to keep Linux servers running does not help your argument.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by LeoNatan25 on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:00PM (#37667672)
I’ve been using Windows for 25 years now. Please don’t lecture me about its reliability, especially in the last 15 years. I’m also having a weekly kernel panic on my M1 Max Mac, a sight unseen on any of my Windows machines for more than a decade, even when using beta nVidia drivers.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by shuckles on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @09:54PM (#37668805)
Presumably someone who uses beta graphics drivers and reasons from personal anecdotes is not a good judge of the reliability of a mass market operating system for the average consumer.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by brokenmachine on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:35AM (#37670198)
My Windows and Linux boxes have been stable for the 25 years I've been using them too.

But what do I know, I'm just a personal anecdote.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by shuckles on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:22AM (#37670521)
Correct. And given you have a Linux box, a very unrepresentative one at that.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by tester756 on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @06:08AM (#37672603)
Oh yea, go ahead then and tell us how it is

What is that "real" reliability (or lack) of Windows.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by jacquesm on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @06:51PM (#37666918)
It's mostly a matter of how much you can throw at it in terms of resources. If there was a five dollar charge for every Linux kernel running you could have all of those and you'd probably still have cash left over.
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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by kibwen on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @07:14PM (#37667174)
> Those things aren’t compatible.

Presented entirely without evidence.

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Re:EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals by quickco on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @08:48PM (#37668169)
See the very next sentence.
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