AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by kxrm on Sunday September 17, 2023 @10:44PM (#37551627)

I actually went through this process with ARIN. So I can give you that perspective. It wasn't a big deal, the only minor concern I had was it felt like you're encouraged to sign up under a business entity. I had an LLC, so it was natural just to use that. I don't know what kind of vetting they do if you decide to use yourself as an organization though instead of a different legal entity.

You need to provide justification, and frankly it's not that big of a challenge to get a /22 which is what I got. As long as you can show how you would like to use them and over what time frame, they will allow you to go through with the acquisition. An ASN is not required to get any IP block. You can always associate your IPs with any ASN that you want so long as that ASN owner is cooperating with you. I went ahead and grabbed an ASN for ease but some ISPs will allow you to use their ASN.

You also do not have to purchase an IPv4 block from someone. You can go through the normal IPv4 request process, however the waitlist [1] is now over a year long for IPv4. However IPv6 are given out very quickly. IPs you acquire this way are "free" to acquire with your ARIN membership. Your membership dues are determined by the assets you hold, there is a fee schedule [2] and you need to pay it annually to maintain your membership and ASN/IP assignments.

I encourage anyone interested in understanding this process to go through it, it didn't take a ton of time nor did it cost a lot in the grand scheme of things. Being an ARIN member also entitles you to be a part of how IPs are governed in the region you acquired them in. They will occasionally send out surveys and you can vote on issues.

[1] https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv4/waiting_list/

[2] https://www.arin.net/resources/fees/fee_schedule/

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by CMCDragonkai on Sunday September 17, 2023 @11:12PM (#37551792)

I'm curious if one were to be certain nation state and was happy being a completely isolated intranet, that they would just exit such arin or related associations and just create their own governing body of IP allocations? In such a case such an internet would be a completely separate internet right?

I wonder if sanctions may ever apply to the internet itself and we may see a break up of the internet into regional internet's.

And if we want to ensure global connectivity these associations would need to be completely independent and voluntary standard and such fees would be paid to an international standards body not beholden to any particular nation's whims?

What if nations started adding intercontinental NAT gateways acting as the entry and exit points between their national boundaries and the rest of the world.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by otabdeveloper4 on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:40AM (#37552307)

The big nations have already wargamed this scenario and have contingency plans in place.

IMO we'll see this happen in our lifetimes.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by CMCDragonkai on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:24AM (#37552521)

Could starlink be a way to maintain global connectivity in the face of government control? Would they try to jam satellite connections?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by p1mrx on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:09AM (#37552785)

It's harder to jam Starlink than GPS because the signals are directional, but if a government doesn't want you using it, they can just make the dishes illegal and throw you in prison for having one.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by otabdeveloper4 on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:21AM (#37552877)

Starlink is under USA jusrisdiction, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure there's no concept of "international waters" for communication satellites.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by yMMe2WYE_D on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:30AM (#37553345)

AFAIK Most of the traffic goes: subscriber <-> (single) satellite <-> local base station. And the latter operates under the rules of given country.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by Figs on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:12AM (#37552463)

North Korea supposedly has its own intranet with IPs in the 10.0.0.0/8 private range: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)

I have no idea how they manage IP allocation internally there though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by shrubble on Monday September 18, 2023 @01:41AM (#37552620)

They could just use CGNAT and could get pretty far on that alone. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by _JamesA_ on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:06AM (#37552767)

Is there a way to get a /24 block that I own and has been unused since the mid 90's routed without signing a new contract and paying the new ARIN fees?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by cyberax on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:49AM (#37553067)

You can not "own" a /24 block. And if your membership lapses, then your blocks are returned to the general pool.

It's possible that your block is a part of a legacy allocation, they are governed differently.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by greyface- on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:32AM (#37555855)

> block that I own and has been unused since the mid 90's

This timeline suggests that it's still a legacy allocation. The new governance structure does not apply unless you sign an RSA or LRSA agreement with ARIN.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by _JamesA_ on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:51AM (#37556918)

That's exactly why I don't want to sign a new agreement. I have never paid fees for my /24 block that I have held for 30 years.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by kxrm on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:40AM (#37553396)

You'd be under the LSRA fee schedule.

https://www.arin.net/resources/fees/fee_schedule/#legacy-reg...

So you won't be subject to the new fee structure.

If you want to route then you will need an ASN and an ISP willing to announce them. So long as you are up on your LSRA dues I don't see how you won't be able to utilize them.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by greyface- on Monday September 18, 2023 @09:35AM (#37555900)

You don't need to sign an LRSA to use the prefix; there are some legacy holdouts still using their original prefixes without any agreement or fees with ARIN. Signing an LRSA will give you access to ARIN IRR/RPKI/rDNS/etc services, which can be quite useful, though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by _JamesA_ on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:03AM (#37557104)

I'm a holdout and have no desire to sign an LRSA.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by greyface- on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:36PM (#37558499)

I'd recommend creating an IRR route object for your prefix and ASN on AltDB (or finding a sponsor to do so on your behalf). Once you have that in place, you should be able to announce it without issues, without any ARIN involvement. Growing adoption of RPKI filtering may make this increasingly difficult in the future, though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B by _JamesA_ on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:49PM (#37558644)

Thanks for the information.

[ Parent | on HN ]