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Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by layer8 on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:27PM (#37539418)
As a user, I find such a “cleanup” problematic if it means closing the issue. If the issue still exists in the product, it should remain open, for documentation, and so that users running into it can easily find it and add to it. I find it more honest if a project acknowledges that the issue exists by leaving it open.

As a developer, I’d rather use a filter to hide older non-critical issues, if I’m bothered about seeing the amount of issues.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by eikenberry on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:42PM (#37539520)
Closed doesn't have to mean resolved and the tickets would still be available either way. Closed is IMO ideal for these tickets as ultimately it means that they aren't being looked at.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by Denvercoder9 on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:49PM (#37539577)
Lots of projects on GitHub (not sure about lodash) automatically lock closed issues so you can't comment on it anymore. That closes an avenue for those that are impacted by the issue to discuss fixes, workarounds and alternatives.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by eternityforest on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:48PM (#37539574)
But they should be looked at. They aren't because we don't have infinite time every day to look at issues.

If those issues are still a problem nobody will find them, they'll make new issues and lose all the previous history, unless the UI is designed to support automatically suggesting reopening an old issue instead.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by jrmg on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:54PM (#37539634)
It's not necessarily true that they 'should' be looked at. Most old projects that follow the 'never close without verification' philosophy end up, eventually, with a majority of open issues not actually reflecting the current state of the project.

A middle-ground might be to leave open the issues with recent activity, with the idea being that at least the ones that are affecting people the most are not swept under the rug.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by joepie91_ on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:58PM (#37539658)
> Most old projects that follow the 'never close without verification' philosophy end up, eventually, with a majority of open issues not actually reflecting the current state of the project.

There's a crucial question here that I find not enough people ask themselves: does that actually matter? And if yes, why? What, specifically, is the material problem caused by this situation?

It often feels like people are just chasing 'inbox zero', under the assumption that "0 open issues == good", without any actual material problem being solved in the process.

(Github probably isn't helping here, with their undeservedly prominent placement of the open issue count driving this sort of behaviour...)

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by dpkirchner on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:33PM (#37548558)
An easy step towards a solution would be for GH to mandate a version number field and allow repo owners to close wildly outdated issues and PRs en masse (like if they just released 3.0, closing all 1.x might be entirely reasonable, and might as well be easy).
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by layer8 on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:54PM (#37539623)
Closed implies that a decision has been made that the issue is somehow not worthy of consideration anymore. That’s what bugs me as a user.

Whether any given ticket is being looked at can change over time. Closing it is a way to drastically reduce the likelihood that it is being looked at. As a user, I see no good reason why that should be done, in particular when it is applied across the board without considering the individual issue.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ncruces on Sunday September 17, 2023 @01:09PM (#37547250)
Closing means it's not worth of consideration at this time, it can always be reopened.

As a user you obviously see no good reason for that. As maintainers having more bugs open than will ever be worked on (e.g. because no one will put up the legwork), serves no good purpose.

PS: individually considering each of 100s of issues takes time and mind share, that can better be invested elsewhere.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by Falkon1313 on Sunday September 17, 2023 @01:56AM (#37541937)
Closed does mean resolved. One way or another. If it's not resolved, it's still open. If the ticket was improperly marked closed, that just means someone else has to create a new ticket for the unresolved issue.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by gochi on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:49PM (#37539580)
Closed doesn't mean resolved, it means closed. Closing issues just shifts them to another tab, doesn't remove them entirely. What you propose, a filter to hide these, is exactly what has been done just through the official open/closed filters.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by layer8 on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:58PM (#37539654)
This is not accurate. When searching for issues, users won’t find closed issues by default. When issues are linked, closed issues are rendered differently (struck through). You can’t comment on them anymore without reopening them, and reopening them is often discouraged or not enabled at all. It is a drastically different state.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by rimunroe on Saturday September 16, 2023 @07:38PM (#37539933)
Wait what? Since when can’t you respond on a closed issue without reopening it? I’ve partaken in lengthy discussions on closed issues without them reopening. Obviously you can’t reply to locked issues of course, but that’s a separate thing.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by eddythompson80 on Saturday September 16, 2023 @07:20PM (#37539826)
most of that is not really true. where are closed issues rendered struck through? It's up to the repo to lock closed issues or not, and it doesn't appear this repo did that.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by rezonant on Saturday September 16, 2023 @09:37PM (#37540620)
Either you are thinking of other project management tools or assuming that some of the "stale issue locking" and automated issue management tools that some larger projects use are default.

On GitHub, it is true that the Issues search shows only open issues by default, but I think users are quite aware that they may need to search for closed issues, especially since it's unlikely they are on the absolute latest version of a package, especially when debugging problems in production. Additionally, some projects close issues once the mainline has addressed them even if the fix isn't in a released version.

GitHub does not render closed issues as struck through, and it does not by default lock conversations on closed issues.

EDIT: I am not taking a side on whether or not it's a good idea to do this sort of "bankruptcy" mass close.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ImPostingOnHN on Saturday September 16, 2023 @11:22PM (#37541211)
> On GitHub, it is true that the Issues search shows only open issues by default, but I think users are quite aware that they may need to search for closed issues

I think users are quite unaware, given how we have no evidence they're quite aware, and the normal thought process is "closed == resolved" (fixed, wontfix, etc)

A normal thought process would be to close individual bugs as you confirm they aren't present in the new version – the end user already bore the burden of writing a bug report, and you owe it to them to actually determine if the issue is resolved before closing, even if the resolution is "wontfix".

Closing bug reports without actually caring about whether they were resolved is giving the finger to your users. Why even have bug reports at that point? As far as users are concerned, you'll just close any new ones for some new reason anyways, based on your track record.

Now: new version, all bugs closed. Next: new name, all bugs closed. Then: new logo, all bugs closed. After all, you close whatever bugs you want, whenever you want, for whatever arbitrary reason you want. And why not? It's your repo. Why does it matter if the bugs are fixed or not when you close 'em? You got a new thing! Close all bugs!

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ahtihn on Sunday September 17, 2023 @01:56AM (#37541938)
> and you owe it to them

Stop right there. It's an open source project. You owe the users absolutely nothing.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by cwillu on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:08AM (#37542313)
If you perform marketing and/or evangelism for your project, it's not at all obvious that you owe your users nothing.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by growse on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:54AM (#37542587)
The act of marketing software doesn't invalidate the license, which often explicitly states that the software comes as-is and free from warranty / support.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by caturopath on Sunday September 17, 2023 @07:48AM (#37544021)
Offering an as-is disclaimer doesn't rid someone of all social, moral, or legal responsibility.

Saying things that conflict with that disclaimer does indeed chip away at the effect the disclaimer has on your responsibility.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday September 17, 2023 @09:22AM (#37544801)
> You owe the users absolutely nothing.

Stop right there. When you ask people for feedback, be it 1-on-1s or bug reports, ignoring the feedback is ruder than never having asked in the first place.

So yes, if you decided to ask for feedback, and they're kind enough to take time out of their day and spend their efforts to help you out in the way you asked them to help you out, you owe it to the provider to not then tell them to bugger off with said feedback.

If you were going to do that, you should have disabled bug reports from users instead. Here is a helpful tutorial on doing that on GitHub: [0]

The rest of the post you replied to remains unaddressed by your 14-word-long opinion. Please provide a more substantial reply to this one if you are having a serious conversation.

[0]: https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-reposi...

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by Dah00n on Sunday September 17, 2023 @09:36AM (#37544934)
Sure you do. Anyone asking for feedback owe to respond on said feedback.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by blitzar on Sunday September 17, 2023 @10:36AM (#37545463)
Allowing feedback != Asking for feedback
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:48PM (#37548670)
opening your feedback system to users == asking users for feedback
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by rezonant on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:57PM (#37548756)
I agree with most of this, but I do think that other than the worst of the users (which admittedly are much more visible than the better ones) do in fact understand how to navigate closed issues.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by Falkon1313 on Sunday September 17, 2023 @01:54AM (#37541927)
> Additionally, some projects close issues once the mainline has addressed them even if the fix isn't in a released version.

And that is a general issue with the maintainers not understanding what they're doing, or not understanding how issue trackers work.

If you close an issue that is still present in the current release, then you're doing it wrong - with one exception. If it is in fact functioning as intended and the issue was just a misunderstanding, then explaining that and closing the issue makes sense. (But even then you might want to update the docs or helptext or something to prevent future misunderstanding, if it's confusing enough.)

Closing an issue just because you don't feel like looking at it today just means that someone else will open a new issue tomorrow to report the same thing. And any history, workarounds, steps to replicate, etc. in the old issue will be lost/disconnected. That's not doing anyone a favor.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by growse on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:53AM (#37542576)
> > Additionally, some projects close issues once the mainline has addressed them even if the fix isn't in a released version.

> And that is a general issue with the maintainers not understanding what they're doing, or not understanding how issue trackers work.

> If you close an issue that is still present in the current release, then you're doing it wrong - with one exception. If it is in fact functioning as intended and the issue was just a misunderstanding, then explaining that and closing the issue makes sense. (But even then you might want to update the docs or helptext or something to prevent future misunderstanding, if it's confusing enough.)

The concept of an issue tracker was not bequeathed to us from on high. There is no single "right" way to do it, nor can you (context free) tell someone they're doing it "wrong".

Some people use issue trackers to inventorize bugs in current releases. Some people use them as a dev's todo list. If you do the latter, closing the issue once you've implemented the fix is perfectly reasonable.

> Closing an issue just because you don't feel like looking at it today just means that someone else will open a new issue tomorrow to report the same thing. And any history, workarounds, steps to replicate, etc. in the old issue will be lost/disconnected. That's not doing anyone a favor.

It feels like it's doing the developer a favour.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by dizhn on Sunday September 17, 2023 @10:59AM (#37545701)
In my experience closed issues are usually closed with an associated PR and the issue it fixes gets merged into main/master.

I've never actually seen a project only close issues when they make a release. Rather they make a new release when there are enough resolved issues or new feature PRs. Though of course they can do whatever they want. There are a lot of projects where it is known that the latest git main should be used and the latest actual binary release is from years ago.

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by rezonant on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:55PM (#37548734)
I keep issues open until a release resolves them for all my open source projects. It helps to prevent duplicates, helps me maintain good release notes, and ensures the open issue list is a more honest description of the software you get when you fetch it via your package manager.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by blitzar on Sunday September 17, 2023 @10:33AM (#37545446)
In my project a ticket that is open / closed / tagged timbuktu means whatever I want it to mean.

Personally I am not going to assume that people are competent enough to check the open issues but too lazy to check the closed issues, or simply too dumb to understand a comment like "closed because I am not going to fix this".

Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by Falkon1313 on Sunday September 17, 2023 @01:55AM (#37541935)
Closed does mean resolved. One way or another. If it's not resolved, it's still open. If the ticket was improperly marked closed, that just means someone else has to create a new ticket for the unresolved issue.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by growse on Sunday September 17, 2023 @03:59AM (#37542623)
"wontfix" is a perfectly good issue resolution.
Re:Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every is... by ncruces on Sunday September 17, 2023 @12:25PM (#37546751)
I started closing issues unceremoniously with a maybelater tag.

If I won't be working on it, if no one is working on it, I won't leave the bug open.

Either someone shows up and decides to put up the legwork or it gets closed, even if it doesn't cross the threshold of wontfix (i.e. I won't accept a fix).