Yes, but there's also a problem is customers really believe it's worth paying $300 for the simplest type of near-vision glasses in 2023. And they're ready to pay for that, so why not take their money?

It's so nuts that Facebook was able to put a computer and cameras into sunglasses without increasing the price

Prescription glasses are basically just chunks of not-too-special plastic that you can buy online for $20 or less, but people refuse to believe that the whole industry is a scam when I try to tell them about it

That's because those $20 glasses are objectively worse than $200 Costco glasses. You might not think that the latter is worth the increased price, but for the vast majority of Americans it is.

Btw Zeiss (known to HNers for making EUV lithography hardware) also makes glasses and you can buy them online. Some of their lenses are $700. Not worth it for me, but I can definitely see how someone would be willing to pay even more for those optical specs

I have zeiss lenses on my glasses, they’re terrible. Full of scratches in 1.5 years. Worst money I’ve ever spent, my last no name €80 lenses went for years without a single scratch! Anecdata obviously

What model? High index or polycarbonate?

I have no idea, but i can copy some data from the package:

One is SV AS +2.5 sphere 0 cyl duravision platinum uv 1.60 index (guess this is what you’re talking about) uvprotect

The other is the same but 1.25 sphere

Hope it helps

They probably did not come with scratches, did they?

Don't scratch them. It's simple as that. Wash lens with soap. It's as simple as that.

What, do you think they scratched them on purpose? Avoiding scratching for thousands of hours isn't actually simple, and if some brand is less scratchable then that's a real benefit.

Or get glasses made with ... glass?

I've been wearing nothing but Zenni glasses for a decade, and they've been excellent the whole time

You can choose the material you put into them. Ray-Ban Scamglasses from the Scam Shop are definitely NOT better. Even Costco glasses aren't better.

I bought mine for $50 years ago and they are perfect. "Objectively" better I would say.

The $30-50 zenni glasses/lenses in my experience are actually substantially clearer than the (absolute ripoff) $400-500 rayban ones. Same prescription, and the zenni ones even arrived quicker! Frame consistency is a bit of an issue though, I bought a few more cheap pairs with the 'same' frame a few years later and they changed the design subtly which made them fit worse.

Zenni's men's glasses are much higher quality than any of the expensive glasses I've tried. I don't know if it's different for women's glasses.

It's because of insurance.

Anything insurance touches becomes expensive, because insured individuals are no longer price sensitive, so there is no incentive to lower costs by providers.

My employer pays for my vision insurance, whether I want it or not, so I may as well maximize the benefit with the "best" hardware I can get for "free."

Your employer offers it, and you use it, because the government specifically carved out a tax exemption for it. Without the tax benefit, there would not be much reason for an employer to provide you vision insurance rather than the equivalent cash.

I set up the vision health plan for my company, and you can certainly waive that (and save some out-of-pocket $$ as well, as employer cannot pay 100% of the insurance, ot at least I couldn't find a 100% option).

And buy the glasses at Zenni et al.

What about thr crop insurance program?

The $20 glasses increase in price sharply when you add vague “nice-to-haves” like blue light filtering.

Likewise, store bought lenses are available with $20 out of pocket expenses.

> Luxottica is a straight up abusive monopoly - they actually sell the insurance that they themselves take!

What is wrong with this? Apple does it, lots of managed healthcare organizations like Kaiser Permanente and UnitedHealth and CVS do it, auto manufacturers do it, etc.

It's not actually insurance, it's a payment plan. Insurance is meant to cover unexpected events, with this you pay a monthly fee for "insurance" which gives you the right to buy the glasses later for a normal price.

The other companies you mention are actual insurance: They cover rare, and unexpected events. As opposed to covering once every two year glasses, on a schedule.

Then what is wrong with a business offering a payment plan?

The deception. False advertising is a crime for good reason.

What is the deception?

The deception is that glasses cost a lot, and you need insurance to help with the cost.

In truth the insurance is just a scam because glasses cost 1/10th what they say.

Now that would be OK if there was actual competition, but there isn't, they are basically a monopoly - as soon as a competitor arises they buy them.

Online glasses are not the same market as a physical store where you can try them on.

Everyone who goes to Walmart (majority of the US?) sees this section at the front of the store when they walk in or out:

https://www.walmart.com/browse/health-medicine/prescription-...

I see lots of $30 and $60 options.

The insurance is only a thing because the tax code allows it as a way for employers to pay people with untaxable money in the form of insurance, so it is not a real insurance market.

Calling it insurance rather than a payment plan or something.

Further it’s got some serious conflict of interest going on with how the benefits are structured. So a plan may cover 1 300$ par of glasses, but not 2 pairs of 150$ glasses specifically to minimize the risk of a race to the bottom etc.

Because you end up paying around 50 times as much as what the glasses actually cost.

But because of how they do it they hide that. $40/month for 2 years = $960 "for insurance" which gives you the right to buy glasses worth around $20 or so.

All the number are inflated leaving people with the impression that glasses cost $400 - they don't.

So now we are talking about profit margins being bad?

We have the internet now, with plenty of other vendors willing to sell eyeglass frames and lenses for cheaper.

Profit margins that make a price more than double are pretty bad, yeah.

High profit margins are also bad when it's something people need.

The competition isn't working right, for a variety of reasons, and so the mere existence of competition does not make those problems disappear.

How is the competition not working right?

https://www.zennioptical.com/

Pretty sure you can go to most Walmarts and find much cheaper corrective eyewear than Luxxotica too.

https://www.walmart.com/browse/health-medicine/prescription-...

The average person doesn't consider them to be a viable option. Don't ask me why, but it's true. And them being considered a viable option is a prerequisite to competition working right.

The average person (at least in the US) does not consider the world’s largest retailer, with a well known reputation for being the cheapest, an option? I don’t buy that.

That WalMart link is to decorative glasses, not prescription glasses.

So here's the thing with WalMart and Luxottica - their insurance does not fully cover WalMart! They give you a significantly reduced amount with WalMart (or Costco), that's how you know it's fraudulent - they only want to cover their own stores, that's not a normal behavior for "insurance".

Perhaps these are better sources.

https://www.cleverdude.com/content/costco-optical-vs-walmart...

https://clark.com/health-health-care/costco-optical-eyeglass...