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Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by the_other on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @03:16PM (#37486397)
> It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable - not sure if it is a data cable, also.

This is why USB-C is a user-hostile spec.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by oynqr on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @03:50PM (#37487049)
Every compliant charging cable is a data cable.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by knodi123 on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @06:27PM (#37489446)
where "compliant" is circularly defined as "supports charging and data"?
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by mort96 on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @06:56PM (#37489752)
Where "compliant" is defined to mean "does the minimum required by the USB spec and thus is legally allowed to carry the USB logo and call itself a USB cable".
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by crote on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @07:19PM (#37490012)
No, "compliant" means "follows the specification as published by the USB-IF and has been certified to do so".
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by bick_nyers on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:54PM (#37491248)
Is there a way I can check if a particular cable or company on say Amazon or AliExpress is certified? Obviously those that aren't certified will say they are certified, so if there's like a database of USB-C certifications somewhere that would be super helpful (particularly if it includes all the misc. stuff about USB-C that fall through the cracks like data rate, PD, supported voltages, etc.).
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by notatoad on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @10:16PM (#37491388)
read the reviews? if a cable doesn't work, it'll get flagged pretty damn quickly. i've bought plenty of dirt cheap USB-C cables off amazon and they've all worked fine.

you might get a charge-only cable bundled with some sketchy usb-c accessory. if you do, throw it out. but any standalone cable sold as a cable will do data transfer. the USB-C cables that only carry power and not data is an imaginary problem.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by bick_nyers on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @11:25PM (#37491835)
Didn't mean to give the impression that I'm worried about USB-C cables that are power only, that is indeed an imaginary problem.

It's moreso things like PD, is it 480Mbits or is it 5Gbit or is it 10 or 20 or 40. What's the voltages, does it support PD 2.0 oh wait is it 3.0 or 3.1?

To be fair, it's been a number of years since I've tried to purchase cables, so perhaps just grabbing the Anker result at the top will net you most of these features. I just remember having to dig and not getting clear answers one way or another which is the spirit of my question.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by notatoad on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @10:38PM (#37504283)
i don't have any devices that require 40Gbit, so i can't speak to that. but in my experience, buying the cheapest cable off amazon will reliably give me 20gbit, and will charge all my devices at full speed (i don't know if it's PD2 or 3.0 or 3.1, but i do know that devices pull more power from my 100W charger than my 60W charger)

in practice, in my daily life, all USB C cables work the same. a couple years ago i got one bundled with a device that didn't support some feature, and so i put it in the garbage. problem solved. since then, all my cables work all the time in whatever device i plug them into.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by vel0city on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @10:17PM (#37491400)
Simple solution, don't shop at low tier vendors that will list knockoff products.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by nrp on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @12:31AM (#37492209)
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by odensc on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @03:52PM (#37487082)
It's not an issue specific to USB-C. There are also plenty of USB-A/Micro-USB cables that don't have the data pins connected. Typically this is only an issue with super cheap electronics that only use USB-C as a connector for power and don't really follow the spec.

I haven't heard of a phone coming with a charge-only cable. Especially because that cable is usually used for syncing to a computer (iOS)/transferring data from an old phone (Android).

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by dwaite on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @05:16PM (#37488514)
USB-C to C cables to spec need the data pins for USB 2 and to support 30W. Beyond that it is cable-specific.

Unless an included cable came with a hard disk, monitor or eGPU, you can be reasonably sure it is USB 2 speeds. If it didn’t ship with a computer either, it is probably 30W max.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by Dylan16807 on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @07:31PM (#37490130)
60 watts. The baseline is 20 volts at 3 amps.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by dwaite on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @07:31PM (#37503038)
Ahh you are right!
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by riskable on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @05:40PM (#37488851)
Even "power" USB C cables can do data transfer. They just do so at USB 2.0 speeds (like a lightning connector would).

Finding a truly power-only USB C cable is difficult but not impossible. It's a special order.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by Telemakhos on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @06:59PM (#37489794)
I'd love one for the airport, so I didn't have to trust that the public charging points weren't hacking my machines on behalf of the local government or criminal syndicate or whatever.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by dmicah on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:09PM (#37490900)
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by vel0city on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @03:57PM (#37487183)
This has always been possible with USB, its not anything specific to the USB-C spec. I have several power-only USB cables, in fact I even have a few USB-A to barrel cables.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by astrange on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @05:59PM (#37489130)
And it's considered a good thing for security, that's why there are "USB condoms" for untrusted charging ports.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by crote on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @07:18PM (#37489997)
No, it is not. According to the spec, all C-C cables transfer data, even if only at USB 2.0 speeds. It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by _jal on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @08:27PM (#37490582)
> It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies

Yes it is.

The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. That is exactly what standards exist to do.

Even if we pretend spec writers wouldn't ever have predicted the proliferation of crappy cables before publishing it, this is not a new problem with USB.

It is absolutely a choice made by the USB Implementers Forum.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by fomine3 on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @08:44PM (#37490714)
They just ignore spec
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by CrazyStat on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @08:44PM (#37490717)
> The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics.

And the cheap knockoff brands would have just violated the spec written that way like they violate the current spec.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by OJFord on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:41PM (#37491158)
I suppose hypothetically you could have data capability built in to the power negotiation pairs, so that it wasn't possible to offer charging without also some amount of data... but quite some complexity to add as a trade-off, not an obvious choice.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by chipsa on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @03:55AM (#37493561)
Conveniently, that's actually the case. A USB-C port should provide no power if there's nothing plugged in, and that's sensed by the data connection pairs. However, to support A-C adapters, you can fake it through the normal connection there.

This is why some things that have a C port won't charge on a C-C cable, but will on a A-C cable, because they don't actually talk to say they need power, but the A port will provide some power regardless, but a C port won't.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by _jal on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @09:55PM (#37491254)
Missing the point.

Power-only cables should be specified to have a different connector. Vastly different speeds should have a different connector. It should be physically impossible to stick the wrong kind of cable in.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by cchance on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @10:34PM (#37491526)
That ... wouldn't be USB lol, if every version has a different connector it's not... universal lol
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by brianpan on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @10:42PM (#37491582)
I think you might be missing the point. Power and data in the same cable is a huge advantage of USB-C (both Apple connectors had power and data in the same cable).

Third parties will make out-of-spec cables no matter what. Some of the ways that Apple has addressed this is the "Made for" program which goes back even to the iPod. And the devices themselves detecting and showing an "Accessory may not be supported" error message, again going back to the iPod.

Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by ninkendo on Tuesday September 12, 2023 @10:58PM (#37491688)
There is no spec for power-only USB-C cables. Anyone making one is doing so against the spec. You can’t use a spec to solve the problem of going against the spec.
Re:iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus by kalleboo on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @02:28AM (#37492918)
So now my phone needs 4 different ports on it for all the different capabilities it has?