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Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by hackandthink on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:25PM (#37401012)
This reads like NSA Public Relations.

Snowden was no whistleblower, NSA did some overcollection but anyway their mission is great and yeah some safeguards had to be improved.

And Keith Alexander is a reliable source.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:37PM (#37401063)
I mean he's now a citizen of Russia like the Cambridge Five before him. His behavior isn't what a whistleblower does. That is separate from whether the NSA was doing something wrong. Chelsea Manning served time and was pardoned, same with Reality Winner (great name). He took a bunch of secrets to China and then to Russia whether he published them is incidental to that.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by yieldcrv on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:46PM (#37401123)
Its the behavior of someone that doesn't want to go to prison in the US.

There are literally a handful of countries that are viable to avoiding that. Them being geopolitical opponents is exactly what they are countries that are viable to avoiding that. You are choosing to put the cart before the horse, that he went to geopolitical opponents to give secrets, and not that he was going to a handful of countries that would avoid prison in the US. and yes, I'm choosing to see it the other way, because his actions are more congruent with the other way. He was trying to go to a different country but could not reach it. The US intercepted flights they merely thought had him on it.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:49PM (#37401137)
> "Its the behavior of someone that doesn't want to go to prison in the US."

So the solution is to take the most sensitive government secrets to a hostile country? Remember that cache of data that was so damaging to the US that it would only be released if he was harmed? He took that to China and to Russia.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by f1refly on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:01AM (#37401209)
You mean the most sensitive government secrets that are about warrantless total surveillance of everyone on earth? The proof that the US government has lost all control over their spying apparatus? Where would be a sensitive place to take them instead in your opinion?
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:33AM (#37401368)
No I mean things like this which he leaked which revealed NSA spying on the Chinese government. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c...
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:47AM (#37401438)
As the article we're commenting on makes very clear, Snowden had no such documents.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by harry8 on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:59PM (#37401195)
He gave that data to american citizens in Hong Kong and retained no copy. Obama's people trapped him in transit in russia on his way to south america so that they could claim "russia! russia!" They openly bragged about this. It worked on both levels. He's stuck and people amazingly still claim he's in with the russians.

It always surprises me how many people still come out with this totally discredited line that he gave secrets to china and russia. Are we done with the equally dishonest claim that he put lives in danger or is everyone across that being a total lie now.

When I think of courage I think of Snowden speaking out against Putin while stuck in russia. When I think of cowardice I think of the lack of prosecution for all those spooks who are now paid by CNN to lie to the public. Who decided not to prosecute clapper? How? He's above the law. Why?

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:05AM (#37401229)
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c...

How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

That leak about NSA breaching Chinese servers was in the same time period that Chinese security services executed accused CIA informants with a gunshot to the head in front of their coworkers.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by harry8 on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:24AM (#37401326)
First one was not published by the journalists Snowden chose, whom he directed as to the kinds of things he wanted published and not. The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better. Your criticism is of the NYT.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowd...

And plenty more.

How are your criticisms of the CIA, NSA and Dept of homeland security coming along? Or you are unable to criticise clapper, the cnn paid expert at this time.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:52AM (#37401457)
Let's forget about publishing. He took a top secret document on NSA spying on China to Chinese territory and then on to Russia. The fact that the Times published them and not his preferred journalist is besides the point. The damage was already done when he took them to Chinese territory and then on to Russia.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by harry8 on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:59AM (#37401484)
> and then on to Russia

False.

The only people who saw the documents that Snowden had were the journalists chosen by Snowden. In any country, including the USA. Some were less responsible than others hence the nyt got a copy. Hong Kong is wholly and totally irrelevant.

The fact the times decided to publish is 100% their responsibility.

Again, what criticisms do you have of the NSA, CIA and dept of homeland security? List them all briefly here, please.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @03:42AM (#37402344)
> The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better.

No, the NYT was reporting on documents that Der Spiegel obtained from Poitras, according to Snowden's wishes. The Der Spiegel journalists had decided to publish a book about those documents and made them public in Germany at the same time.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by fallingknife on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:08AM (#37401257)
Your objections here are like criticizing a homeowner for shooting a burglar with an unregistered gun. Yes, it's illegal, but nobody cares because there is a much more severe crime going on, and it's strange that you would focus on that.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by DANmode on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @05:33AM (#37402979)
> Remember that cache of data that was so damaging to the US that it would only be released if he was harmed?

I do not.

Source?

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by BeFlatXIII on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:10PM (#37407165)
What is it about Snowden discussions that brings out all the moral grandstanders and internet tough guys?
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:35PM (#37407523)
Maybe it's because of Snowden's moral grandstanding over leaking only a single extant US program that could possibly have been illegal (telephone metadata collection) and hundreds of others that very clearly weren't. People have every right to be disgusted with him.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by BeFlatXIII on Thursday September 07, 2023 @11:36AM (#37420529)
Not illegal is not the same as nor morally wrong.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by Tao3300 on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:54PM (#37401169)
> His behavior isn't what a whistleblower does.

You need to explain this. Why should a whistleblower have to go to prison? Don't deflect with whataboutisms.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @11:58PM (#37401187)
A whistleblower doesn't abscond to a hostile country with troves of top secret data. For all we know the publication campaign could be an FSB active measure (I'm not saying that is the case just it injects doubt.) By going directly to the most hostile governments he could find it undermines the notion that this is some selfless quest to inform the public.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by InvaderFizz on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:03AM (#37401216)
This is a rather strange take. In 2013, Hong Kong was a very different place than today, with none of the China stigma.

Additionally, you neglect to mention that is was the US actions in cancelling his passport that stranded Snowden in the Moscow airport that he was transiting through on the way to Ecuador.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:41AM (#37401414)
If you believe Russia cares about Snowden's travel documents, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Snowden should consider himself lucky that he got detained in Russia because Moreno would have given him up before Assange.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by testcaseuser on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:06AM (#37401244)
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-...

" The Chinese government made the final decision to allow Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, a move that Beijing believed resolved a tough diplomatic problem even as it reaped a publicity windfall from Mr. Snowden’s disclosures, according to people familiar with the situation."

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by jklinger410 on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:34AM (#37401373)
You literally can't address the question. He had absolutely no reason to believe the official channels would do anything other than bury the story and throw him in jail for life.

You know that's what they would've done, it's what they have always done. He has been proven right about this since he left.

And what does all of this Russia China FUD have anything to do with anything? China and Russia are both technically our allies. The right loves Putin now. What kind of neoliberals cold war playbook like people like you even reading out of. Suddenly the US has all these fake allies and we're supposed to just know we're at war with secretly, and they didn't know anything about the Snowden stuff so he gave them this secret treasure trove of data that got people killed and put our soldiers at risk.

Grow up. You're parroting propaganda here.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by Dah00n on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @03:52AM (#37402399)
The parrot is the one saying Russia and the US is allied.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by jakobnissen on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @01:06AM (#37401518)
He didn't. He went to Ecuador, but the US cancelled his passport while he was connecting in Russia. And he didn't bring any classified materials with him.

So it's 100% on the US government that he ended up in Russia and not Ecuador

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by varjag on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @03:44AM (#37402356)
It's amazing how the two countries antagonistic to the USA that he was supposed to travel between cared about such a formality, isn't it.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by dTal on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @07:40AM (#37403692)
The passport control officers care, yes. That's their job.

Once it got escalated past them, onto Putin's desk, Snowden wasn't going anywhere. Why would he let a juicy trading chip like that go?

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by varjag on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @08:43AM (#37404290)
The scandal was watched globally as it unfolded. By the time of his arrival to Sheremetyevo his future FSB minders were getting tired of twiddling their thumbs at the gate.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by denton-scratch on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @07:20AM (#37403572)
> A whistleblower doesn't abscond to a hostile country with troves of top secret data.

Why not?

The fact of being a whistleblower is orthogonal to whether you abscond and where to. And Russia wasn't a "hostile country" - many of the biggest companies in the US had operations in Russia.

Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:21AM (#37401322)
What does whistleblowers going to prison have to do with the Snowden case? The article we're commenting on makes it clear that whistleblowing and Snowden have nothing to do with each other.
Re:On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations by lern_too_spel on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @12:19AM (#37401308)
Everything in this article is factually correct. It leaves out some information we learned about MUSCULAR, which also discredited Greenwald's reporting, but it covered a lot of Greenwald's nonsensical "greatest hits."