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Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by scarface_74 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:09PM (#37228553)
> Apple doesn't like any standards it doesn't control with an iron fist

You mean like SCSI, FireWire, USB-A, USB-C, USB 3.x, Bluetooth, Qi charging, H264, AAC?

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by kbenson on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:36PM (#37228843)
Just because they used them doesn't mean they like using them, just that they don't have the sway to move people to something of their own.

FireWire was developed by Apple and some other companies, as a competitor to USB, and lost out to USB.

Apple had their own video container and codev formats in quicktime, and those also lost out to others.

They definitely prefer to roll their own, they just don't always succeed in gaining enough market adoption (in the past) or they're told to stop pushing it to the detriment to their users (as recently with USB-c).

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by scarface_74 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:53PM (#37229037)
> FireWire was developed by Apple and some other companies, as a competitor to USB, and lost out to USB.

Apple was part of the patent pool for FireWire and is also part of the patent pool for USB C and was early to be onboard with Thunderbolt along with Intel.

Apple went all in on USB with the iMac in 1997 well before PCs were completely onboard.

> Apple had their own video container and codev formats in quicktime, and those also lost out to others

Apple’s QuickTime container is part of the standard

https://wiki.videolan.org/QuickTime_container/#:~:text=The%2....

And Apple is in the patent pool for H.264

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by kbenson on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @07:12PM (#37229804)
> Apple was part of the patent pool for FireWire

Apple is listed first as the designer, then second the IEEE1394 working group. Indeed, there's some indication that Apple's development started in the 80's and it wasn't until later it was presented as a standard.[1] Funnily enough, they wanted it to replace SCSI, another technology you noted as a counter to Apple not liking standards they don't control.

> is also part of the patent pool for USB C

Being part of a patent pool doesn't really mean anything to me, given how companies use patents strategically and trade them. Do you have details on what patents may be shared?

> and was early to be onboard with Thunderbolt along with Intel.

They weren't early to onboard, they developed it with Intel (even if Intel held most of the patents and may have done the lion's share of the work, I'm not sure on that point).[2]

> Apple went all in on USB with the iMac in 1997 well before PCs were completely onboard.

Being able to control the hardware completely allows they to make shifts like that, because there was no one "PC" to be completely onboard. That said, they make moves away from it where they could for protocols they had some level of control and or steering of (FireWire, Thunderbolt, etc).

> Apple’s QuickTime container is part of the standard

Apple's QTFF was donated to be the container for MP4, but for a decade or more prior to that it was proprietary (but may have been open to implementation by third parties, I'm not sure). The main problem was that Apple licensed and defaulted to using Sorenson video codecs in their Quicktime framework and shipped it along with their video players, locking down the playing of the format to people willing to purchase the Sorenson codec individually or to those that used their player.

I admit this one is less about using a standard of their own and more just an early example of the platform control and lock-in they're known for now.

> And Apple is in the patent pool for H.264

Again, being in a patent pool for a large company doesn't by itself signal anything to me, given how strategically large orgs use patents. I would need some more info to view this one way or another.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by scarface_74 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @09:40PM (#37230860)
What exactly is your complaint? That Apple only uses standards that it contributes to? What other computer maker was going to move technology forward?

Should Apple have used the PS/2 connector instead?

> That said, they make moves away from it where they could for protocols they had some level of control and or steering of (FireWire, Thunderbolt, etc).

What were they going to use instead of FireWire? USB 1 was painfully slow. Again what other “standard” should they have used?

There was never a Mac that didn’t have USB after the iMac.

You can go back even further Nubus was licensed from Texas Instruments (used in the Mac II in 1987) and they moved to PCI with the second generation PowerMacs in 1996 (?)

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by kbenson on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:07PM (#37252482)
> What exactly is your complaint?

My complaint? I'm just calling into question your counterpoint exampkes supplied when someone stated that Apple only likes standards they control. Whether it's warranted or they have good reason to in some cases is somewhat besides the point, they have a long history of developing their own standards, sonetimes because they are addressing a problem that isn't solved by another technology, and sometimes just because they would rather have something they control whether the market segmentation and user confusion it causes is best for the customer or not.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by darkwater on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @04:32AM (#37233289)
> Apple went all in on USB with the iMac in 1997 well before PCs were completely onboard.

"PCs" were using either parallel or serial ports, in addition to the PS/2 ports for mice and keyboards. None of them were proprietary or if they were, they were widely used so basically standard. USB ports were added easily as expansion cards on those PCs (TBH I don't recall if it was the case already in 1997, don't remember owning any USB peripheral back then)

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by scarface_74 on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @05:11AM (#37233522)
What’s your point? Do you really think that Apple should have used PS/2?
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by darkwater on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:58AM (#37245855)
My point is that PCs already had perfectly standards for cheap peripheral communication, so there was less pressure to upgrade to USB. I remember the "PC2000" slogan that aimed at having USB-only PCs by 2000, it probably took 3-4 extra years.
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by robertoandred on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @06:24PM (#37229360)
QuickTime lost? MP4 basically is QuickTime.
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by GeekyBear on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @09:05PM (#37230660)
> Apple had their own video container and codec formats in quicktime

You know the MP4 standard is based on Quicktime, right?

> MPEG-4 Part 14 is an instance of the more general ISO/IEC 14496-12:2004 which is directly based upon the QuickTime File Format which was published in 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP4_file_format#History

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by __d on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @10:57PM (#37231363)
> FireWire was developed by Apple and some other companies, as a competitor to USB, and lost out to USB.

Firewire existed for years before USB: it was designed in the late 80's, roughly 10 years before USB. Development was mostly Apple and Sony, but numerous others were involved in the IEEE-hosted process.

As USB became more capable (Firewire vs USB1 was no contest), it gradually began to replace it. But ultimately, Thunderbolt was its real replacement.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by dgellow on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:18PM (#37228655)
Still no iPhone with USB-C :(
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by scarface_74 on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @05:22PM (#37228690)
This year definitely because of the EU mandate. It will probably still be nerfed like the low end iPad that has USB C. But still transfers at USB 2 speeds
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by jorvi on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @07:38PM (#37229994)
I honestly don’t get why people are so furious about this. I asked my two siblings, two friends from my uni days and two friends from work and none of them have used the Lightning (soon to be USB-C) port for anything but charging and music.

None of them even remember connecting it to a computer past the iPhone 5S.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by Gigachad on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @09:04PM (#37230650)
There is basically no point plugging an iPhone in to a computer. It’s so much more convenient to use airdrop or cloud storage.

It’s much more useful on the iPad where you might actually use it as some kind of video editing device and plug an external monitor and ssd in.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by 4ggr0 on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @07:25AM (#37234248)
> There is basically no point plugging an iPhone in to a computer

...if your computer runs MacOS.

I was surprised to see how unnecessarily annoying it is to transfer videos and photos from an iPhone to a Windows PC.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by Gigachad on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @08:03AM (#37234589)
It’s pretty easy to move files on and off the iPhone using a usb/portable ssd and the files, hardest part would be you need a usb to lightning otg cable which is somewhat uncommon.

It’s the kind of thing you don’t really do if you follow the apple flow though. You’d either stream the video from whatever service, or you sync it with apple photos and it will be available on your phone.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by 4ggr0 on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:33AM (#37262172)
When I plugged in the iPhone via cable to my Windows PC, I could only extract pictures which were taken recently, god knows why.

Apple officially recommends to install iCloud on the PC and download the files from there, but they didn't let me disable the upload of the files on my PC, so I uninstalled iCloud again.

Then the recommendation was to just download it from iCloud Web. Which I did. But for some reason iCloud download default to a lower resolution (720p video in my case) instead of the full resolution. To do this I had to click on a small button, which then gave me the option to download my own files in full res.

Of course I only noticed that I'd downloaded a lower res after editing a video for 5 hours. All in all, an extremely subpar experience. Every Android phone ever can just transfer files over cable to any PC, for some reason just iPhones have to be complicated...

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by ThatPlayer on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @09:30PM (#37230808)
As long as it has DP alt-mode for HDMI, I'm happy. Unlike Lightning that doesn't do that, so they package a full h264 decoder into that HDMI adapter.

The USB 2 thing is probably like the Raspberry Pi 4: the SoC only supports 2.0. Older iPads and the Pi4 have a full USB 3.0 controller external to the SoC. Apple likes to re-use the previous year's SoC and no point doing USB 3.0 before. I could see the pro models doing 3.0 since it'll probably be a new SoC

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by dwaite on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @10:28PM (#37231211)
> As long as it has DP alt-mode for HDMI, I'm happy.

That would be interesting, but like you alluded to it would likely require out-of-SoC tech for the existing A-series chips.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by dwaite on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @10:26PM (#37231199)
> It will probably still be nerfed like the low end iPad that has USB C. But still transfers at USB 2 speeds

Other than one exception, the A-series SoCs have not shipped with USB 3.x or USB4 support. The 10th gen iPad uses an A-series chip, so it is pretty close to being a "lightning to USB dongle" inside the case.

So it isn't a software or manufacturing nerf - the part does not support USB 3.

Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by dgellow on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @02:34PM (#37240308)
Fine for me, I never transferred anything over a wire between my phone and another device. It’s way more annoying to have to deal with a different charger.
Re:The first conformant M1 GPU driver by FireBeyond on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @10:05PM (#37231039)
Apple deliberately broke DSC 1.4 to support the Pro Display XDR. Thousands of people happily using 4K HDR10 high refresh monitors under Catalina all of a sudden couldn’t under Big Sur with the release of the Pro Display, and people wondering how they were managing the resolution.

And demonstrably so - “downgrading” to DSC 1.2 actually improves those other users refresh rates and HDR support.

This is still “broken” as of Ventura.