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Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by somenameforme on Saturday August 12, 2023 @03:24PM (#37103382)
I think the obvious concern would be failure scenarios. There will always be failures in space technology. As space expands exponentially (as it is likely to do so in the future), failures will become relatively regular. So the obvious question would be what would happen if a nuclear rocket, with reaction in process, crashed to Earth. Or even if it broke up in the atmosphere.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by semi-extrinsic on Saturday August 12, 2023 @03:54PM (#37103656)
I assume here you mean to denote by "space" the number of human spacecraft, and not the negative pressure contribution in the cosmological stress-energy tensor. In that case, why should it be likely to expand exponentially in the future?
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by sebzim4500 on Saturday August 12, 2023 @04:31PM (#37103979)
>As space expands exponentially (as it is likely to do so in the future), failures will become relatively regular.

It's possible that reliability/safety will improve as fast as the launch cadence does, in which case we could see the accident rate staying flat or decreasing.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by pdntspa on Saturday August 12, 2023 @04:40PM (#37104055)
Isn't there a way you can shoot the whole apparatus into the sky while it is inert and then activate in space?
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by nukeman on Saturday August 12, 2023 @04:59PM (#37104182)
Yes, you can have the reactor offline, with control rods inserted for launch. Then when you reach the requisite altitude, withdraw the control rods and start up the reactor. In the event of a launch accident and potential destruction of the reactor, the enriched uranium fuel would be a chemical hazard (uranium is a heavy metal like lead), but only a mild radiation hazard (since there are no high-gamma fission products, and the uranium has undergone heavy purification prior to fuel fabrication).
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by m4rtink on Sunday August 13, 2023 @03:42AM (#37107590)
I think this is the default for any launch of reactors from Earth - launch inert, possibly in pieces and ideally in re-entry proof capsules so you prevent contamination and can re-launch after a failure.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by aziaziazi on Saturday August 12, 2023 @04:41PM (#37104068)
It already happened with Kosmos 954 and will probably happen again soon: ~20 other satellites had been sent in space with the same tech. Kosmos crashed away from (human) life centers but that was a huge stroke of luck. Research area was 100k+ km2.

Launches are less to be feared because they are oriented toward sea and the most critical moment are the first minutes. The device discussed is intended to travel away from earth so as you noted it won’t be dangerous after it quit orbit.

Disclaimer: not skilled in any related field, just a consumer of space science popularization videos for newbies.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by flagrant_taco on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:38AM (#37106731)
It's crazy to me that people largely consider it safe as long as the unspent fuel or nuclear debris is dumped into the ocean.

(Not a direct comment on your opinion specifically, just building of the general idea)

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by adastra22 on Sunday August 13, 2023 @04:38AM (#37107883)
Because it largely is? It ends up on the sea bed, covered in sediment, then eventually recycled into the Earth’s mantle some millions of years from now. It doesn’t enter the biosphere.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by aziaziazi on Sunday August 13, 2023 @05:17AM (#37108128)
Oceans, marine fauna and marine flora are part of the biosphere.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by adastra22 on Sunday August 13, 2023 @09:31AM (#37109877)
None of those exist in the regions where these satellite renter. These are natural dead patches.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by aziaziazi on Sunday August 13, 2023 @10:35AM (#37110412)
Any evidence/reference to back this up?

Oceans are the cradle of life and are still populated by fishes, mammals, zoo and phytoplancton even away from coastlines.

http://comlmaps.org/gallery/footprints/

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by adastra22 on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:37PM (#37111511)
Not these areas.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/programmes/datelinepacif...

Abyssal zones of the ocean are only populated by creatures that feed on hydrothermal vents, or dead creatures falling down from the surface. But the mid pacific has no hydrothermal vents and the surface is a dead zone due to human activity. So there is no source of food for life to exist here, and outside of the occasional whale fall it is truly dead.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by aziaziazi on Sunday August 13, 2023 @01:14PM (#37111898)
Terrifying, didn’t know there’s a second patch on the south. The census map in my parent post show this area populated by “predators” but not much zooplankton, so not sure what lives there. There’s also probably a bunch of debris from nuclear tests in this region.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by wkat4242 on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:11PM (#37111237)
Not soon. Most of these other rorsat reactors have been put in a parking/disposal orbit where they'll last a long time (I forgot how long bit I think it was in the order of thousands of years)

I'm kinda surprised the soviets even thought of the environment in that way.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by ethbr1 on Saturday August 12, 2023 @05:05PM (#37104214)
The idea is also to use this for solar system propulsion, rather than Earth to orbit.

Consequently, reactor payloads would be carried on a very small fraction of launches, then used in space for an extended amount of time.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by avar on Saturday August 12, 2023 @05:15PM (#37104296)

    > Or even if it broke up
    > in the atmosphere.
The atmosphere we've already detonated over 500 nuclear weapons in?
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by pixl97 on Saturday August 12, 2023 @07:03PM (#37105015)
Mostly about the ocean it would typically fall into in the most common failure shortly after launch scenario.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by Retric on Saturday August 12, 2023 @07:59PM (#37105289)
Nuclear testing got to carefully select locations to minimize harm, uncontrolled reentry of nuclear rockets has significantly less control.

It’s not the 99 rockets falling into the ocean shortly after launch that are problematic, it’s the 1 that almost works but then lands in the city we should be concerned with.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by TheSpiceIsLife on Saturday August 12, 2023 @10:40PM (#37106166)
* * *
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by askvictor on Saturday August 12, 2023 @11:28PM (#37106416)
Not falling on a city, but debris from Russia's launch last week was seen and heard in Melbourne, Australia: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-08/space-junk-leaves-tra...

That's pretty close for what would be high level nuclear material.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by flagrant_taco on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:34AM (#37106710)
We might see more obvious direct human impact from debris landed in cities, but nuclear debris falling into the ocean or land that isn't densely populated by humans still has plenty of bad side effects.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by m4rtink on Sunday August 13, 2023 @03:36AM (#37107555)
Sealed fuel capsule at the bottom of the ocean should not be a big deal - ideally you would fish it out and re-launch it. This has already been done with an RTG before.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by sandworm101 on Saturday August 12, 2023 @09:05PM (#37105644)
Nuclear weapons testing was mostly designed to maximize power output by burning up as much fissile material as possible in one big explosion. Conversely, it was meant to minimize fallout. A broken nuclear reactor (no nuclear explosion) would be the opposite: lots and lots of fallout (broken reactor bits) scattered over a wide area. The radioactivity from a broken nuclear rocket could be more dangerous than that from a great many bombs.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by askvictor on Saturday August 12, 2023 @11:32PM (#37106428)
One solution would be have a kill-switch that detonates the reactor fuel as a nuclear bomb (assuming it could be configured in such a way; this is probably more difficult than I imagine). There would be major political problems with this approach though, as you're then shooting nuclear missiles.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by ragebol on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:40AM (#37106740)
Even as a layman in these things, I know that a nuclear reactor is far, far from a nuclear bomb and isn't easily made one. You can't 'configure' a reactor to become a bomb.

A better way would just be shielding, make sure it stays in 1 piece through reentry and impact. And still doesn't leak radiation then.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday August 13, 2023 @12:47AM (#37106784)
Can’t we just send up the propulsion system and the fuel separately? So like, ya, either could fail, but one is just some fancy equipment being g destroyed and the other is…unert uranium or plutonium coming down, needing to be cleaned up but not in a particular dangerous mode. Then once in orbit and the risk of crashing into earth is much less, put them together, fire up the reactor and go?
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by dghlsakjg on Sunday August 13, 2023 @01:42AM (#37107037)
I suspect that the fuel separate from the reactor is still a major risk.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by adastra22 on Sunday August 13, 2023 @04:36AM (#37107878)
It can’t be configured that way. That’s simply not how reactors or bombs work.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by m4rtink on Sunday August 13, 2023 @03:33AM (#37107542)
Reactors that have not yet been started do not contain that much radioactivity actually, nuclear detonation creates a lot of gunk during the energetic phase due to neutron activation and similar processes.

Also you can presumably shield reactors to survive reentry or even ship the fuel in multiple such reentry proof containers. And of course longer term build these in space, given nuclear propulsion is basically in space only anyway given its characteristics.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by SkyMarshal on Saturday August 12, 2023 @06:37PM (#37104842)
>As space expands exponentially (as it is likely to do so in the future), failures will become relatively regular.

Or it could go the way of the airline industry where failures become less regular as the industry develops ways of systematically reducing them.

Also, nuclear rockets should probably be launched to earth orbit in pieces, separately, so that if any one launch fails it won’t create a nuclear accident in the biosphere. Then assemble and power up the nuclear rocket as far away from earth as possible.

Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by numpad0 on Saturday August 12, 2023 @08:36PM (#37105485)
The solution to this is to build it in the moon from moon rocks and send it by maglev trains. Full scale spaceships can be 3D printed in parts, assembled on-orbit, and Dragon/Starliner class rowboats can be used to board it.
Re:US Government is taking serious step toward space-based n... by m4rtink on Sunday August 13, 2023 @03:38AM (#37107574)
Longer term - definitely thats the way to go. But first we need to build all this infrastructure & nuclear termal propulsion might be already necessary to get there.