1. Open source is global, and not everyone is a native speaker of English.
2. Among English speakers, not everyone has the same cultural conventions and nuances. Even within US cities, you can drive 15 minutes, and find very different conventions. And culture in Boston isn't the same as the Bay Area, isn't the same as in Bolivia.
3. Even within the same culture, not everyone picks up on signals in language to the same degree (whether perceiving or sending). And some people who think they're picking up on signals are conflating with biases more than some others do.
I say I have to remind myself, because this still hits me. For example, when I'm searching certain bug databases, trying to solve an annoying problem, and some prolific volunteer commenting on a bug report there speaks in a manner that comes off as brusque or dismissive. Where they're from (across the Atlantic from me), maybe it's interpreted as professional or capable, and is even reassuring.
Someone's definition of aggressive discourse is definitely not everyone's.
I think this is part of what I'm getting at, text conversations are missing eye contact, body language cues etc, and along with the anonymity of the internet, a lot of things can be misinterpeted and disagreements can escalate quickly.
I normally try not to engage in it too much - when the sun is shining and it's a beautiful day I'd rather be out exercising and patting peoples dogs than engaging in Internet drama. That is all.
I miss those times. By the end of the day, everybody would hug and kiss and say goodbye until next Sunday.
Also, our interpretation depends on context, such as in your example, and many other things. It's a bit argumentative to treat a short HN comment as a roadmap of every human interaction and find flaws.
I'm of xUSSR descent, and sometimes when I see a group of chinese colleagues speaking together loudly, it is very weird to me, as soometimes they are so loud that if it was in Russian it would mean that the brawl could start any second. It is hard to judge sometimes.
Even in written communication it is was told to me many times that many Russians, especially those with B1/B2 levels, as well as Jewish people are extremely direct, and it may be perceived as native speakers as rude, although it isn't meant to.
We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways, despite whatever our HR training videos claim.
When someone "yells at me," I tend to think they're excited and it piques my interest in what they're saying. At the same time, they're excited so I expect them to omit some details and not give me a complete picture - I'm less discerning about the details. Was that one of the responses I'm supposed to feel?
I didn't say we did. I said there is a range of responses we can reasonably expect.
Generally once I'd helped them unpick that they collaborated happily and came up with something good that they both liked, it's just once people are locked in to talking past each other it's often non-trivial to break out of that.
I found this: https://libreboot.at
> Who are we? Denis ‘GNUtoo’ Carikli and Adrien ‘neox’ Bourmault. We created this and maintain it.
> take a stand for fully free software is to change URLs across the web from <libreboot.org> to <libreboot.at>, and to let people know that no other version of Libreboot is reliably free software
You can see that they abandoned the Libreboot name and founded GNU Boot, that Leah is now trying to take over (the name) too.
Anyway, this drama is highly personal and Leah is not a trustworthy person.
According to this [1], the alleged takeover you mention not only didn't involve Adrien or Denis Carikli, it also happened two years before the creation of https://libreboot.at, which seems to be from 2023 [2]
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20210331005023/https://libreboot... or https://www.andrewrobbins.info/libreboot.html if you want a third-party
[2] https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/libreboot-devel/2023-0...
Either way, it seems that if there was any problem around the usage of the GNU Boot name, it was solved by adding disclaimers galore: http://notgnuboot.vimuser.org/
To me the disclaimers above show enough good faith. Meanwhile https://libreboot.at continues up. I don't think we should be that harsh and accusatory to someone after they actually comply with the request of changing a page name and adding disclaimers.
This seems so weird to me. Why invest the energy? In the olden days we'd just fork and get to work.
As some of us already said multiple times, this is a completely different story and unrelated to this. Let's maybe lets this misunderstanding die?
Granted, the TLDR at the top would have helped haha, especially if it was a long post.
FWIW today is the first I’ve heard of Leah and I spent some time reading their website (vimuser.org) and they seem to be quite conscientious and thorough in explaining their work and the rationales behind it. This whole thing has kindled some interest in using a free boot loader on my system. Looking forward to trying it out.
Lib reboot.
Always have, but it took LibreOffice becoming mainstream to make the correction mostly unnoticeable.
Then I suspect Leah disagreed with that fork both on technical merits (it's based on old code) and with the stealing of the name, but she agreed with the need for a version without the binaries, so she made that and published it under the name GNUboot, intended for Denis and Adrien to base their work on, and now Denis and Adrien are complaining that she's misusing the GNU name.
Is that roughly a correct summary?
Because if it is, it sounds to me like both sides do have valid points, but handled the disagreement very poorly. Denis and Adrien complaining that Leah stole the GNU name when they just stole the Libreboot name, sounds very hypocritical. The whole thing would be a lot better if both sides stopped the drama and powergames and just worked together to create the best possible boot systems; one with the binaries and one without.
For example, a long email history on any of these people(and even if you don't use, people you email do use gmail), from a central store such as gmail, would provide immense insight into personality traits, etc.
Which means external motivaters could be used as handy leavers to drive dissent.
Little spats like this, erode project trust, and just divert energy.
Anyhow, no idea if this is happening. I guess if you really do want to destroy something, just let Oracle buy it, so maybe I'm off here.
But yeah, this does seem to happen painfully often. The particulars of this specific incident remind me a lot of the FFmpeg vs LibAV split (or the LibAV+Debian vs. FFmpeg+Everyone Else split).
GNU will probably back pedal