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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by brmgb on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:09AM (#36812054)
> Atomic bomb

Mostly foreign Jewish scientists who were neither taught nor started their research in the USA and came because of the situation in Europe. Even Oppenheimer had to go do his PhD in Germany.

> Hollywood

Both the camera, the first films and the foundation of filming come from the Lumieres and their company based in France and the films they made around the world.

> internet

Packet switching is from Batman in the UK. HTML was from a British engineer in Switzerland.

Even the rocket you sent to the moon was built by a German.

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by defrost on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:22AM (#36812124)
re Hollywood:

     The Limelight Department was one of the world's first film studios, beginning in 1898, operated by The Salvation Army in Melbourne, Australia.

    The Limelight Department produced evangelistic material for use by the Salvation Army, including lantern slides as early as 1891, as well as private and government contracts.

    In its 19 years of operation, the Limelight Department produced about 300 films of various lengths, making it one of largest film producers of its time.
Limelight spawned offshoot production efforts from former employees using end of life Limehouse equipment, eg: the 1906 feature length classic The Story of the Kelly Gang

    The original cut of this silent film ran for more than an hour with a reel length of about 1,200 metres (4,000 ft), making it the longest narrative film yet seen in the world.
The first proper 'Hollywood' feature length was the 1915 KKK film The Birth of a Nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limelight_Department

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Kelly_Gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by roenxi on Friday July 21, 2023 @07:55AM (#36812780)
Doesn't that reinforce the point though? Europe had all these brilliant, well educated people and didn't manage to rise above shooting each other until the civilisation on the continent was more or less reduced to rubble.

That isn't a result that makes Europe look clever. The major intellectual innovation out of that era was communism. The US approach outperformed Europe's by such a margin that it isn't worth comparing them.

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by zpeti on Friday July 21, 2023 @12:42PM (#36816082)
Wow, can’t believe you’re getting downvoted. This is exactly the point of my original post.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by brmgb on Friday July 21, 2023 @07:14PM (#36821282)
Because you think the US managed to get above shooting each other? Ah, my sweet summer child. Enjoy your mostly empty continent surrounded by oceans and the quirk of history who briefly put you were you are. It’s unlikely to last long.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by eesmith on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:41PM (#36828626)
You don't think capitalism was a major intellectual innovation?

That came out of Europe, and well after the steam engine.

And, I think you mean "Marxism", not "communism"?

Communism in the West predates capitalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_communism lists examples like Tommaso Campanella's 1601 work "The City of the Sun" and Morelly's 1755 work "The Code of Nature" as some of the works which predate Smith's 1776 work "The Wealth of Nations".

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by caleb-allen on Friday July 21, 2023 @08:20AM (#36812953)
If film was invented in France, why didn't France become the film hub of the world, then, instead of Los Angeles? If packet switching is from the UK, why didn't the UK build a world wide network instead of DARPA? If HTML was invented by a Brit in Switzerland, why didn't the UK or Switzerland become a hub for the world wide web instead of silicon valley?

You say that the rocket sent to the moon was built by a German, as if that's points against the United States. To many Americans that isn't a bad thing. It is a foundational American value to adopt culture, skill, and ambition from abroad.

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by atq2119 on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:09AM (#36813324)
> If film was invented in France, why didn't France become the film hub of the world, then, instead of Los Angeles?

The US wasn't disrupted by WWII nearly as much as France. The US also has a larger domestic monolingual market, so there's more potential for network effects.

By the way, this is true even today. The EU is a larger unified market than the US, but linguistic divisions are still a significant barrier.

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by tharkun__ on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:13AM (#36813357)
This viewpoint is funny given the full on American individualism thing. "one superhero invented the Atomic bomb. And he was American!"

When pointed out that it wasn't one American but many imported people from around the world then suddenly things shift to "well of course, that's because only the US allows lots of individuals from around the world to work together as a team to do great things".

Which one is it?

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by xeromal on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:43AM (#36814393)
It's not really incongruous because Americans don't really have an origin besides the original natives. What makes us great is our immigrants. We're all immigrants.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by tharkun__ on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:58AM (#36814591)
What original natives? You mean the Asians that migrated down to what's now Canada and the US?

In the end it's a definition of how far back you want to look to define "original natives". And the further back you go the more inexact are the "facts". Do we all come from this one place in Africa in the end? Are we 100% Homo sapiens Or How much Neanderthal is in us? Does it depend on which migration wave our ancestors were part of?

Meaning by extension of your logic if I choose the right cutoff Europe is African actually so the Atomic bomb was invented by an African!

Personally I think that the cutoff should be somewhere around second or third generation immigrants. Specifics can depend on how much integration with existing local culture happens or how much individual silo groups cling to their country of origin. And then there's of course the "eradication of previous inhabitants" that sometimes happened. The majority population of the US has roots in Europe, yes. But US culture" is definitely distinct enough now to stand on its own.

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by ToValueFunfetti on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:35AM (#36815029)
First and second generation immigrants make up ~25% of the American population (roughly even split). Drawing the line such that a quarter of Americans aren't American doesn't seem right to me.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by tharkun__ on Friday July 21, 2023 @02:12PM (#36817350)
That's a fair enough way to think about this from some angle. Specifically I guess the citizenship one which clearly makes people Americans way earlier than my scenario.

It's not as easy as that though on a more philosophical level and from various different angles. E.g. think yourself back to the days those Asian tribes presumably came to America. I read it was three waves. Was the first wave the only true "native Americans" then and the second wave was an immigrant already? That became "native" when and how then? (never mind that there was no such thing as citizenship of a country at that time)

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by xeromal on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:00AM (#36814622)
lol
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by flappyeagle on Friday July 21, 2023 @12:15PM (#36815640)
The American point of view is that anyone who adopts America as their home is American. I don’t care what a piece of paper says. You move here and make your home here, you’re one of us.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by Freedom2 on Friday July 21, 2023 @04:18PM (#36819104)
Does every state share this view?
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by flappyeagle on Saturday July 22, 2023 @09:36AM (#36826103)
Yes every state shares this view. They may not assume you’re American upon meeting you but if you tell someone you are, they will almost certainly accept it.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by brmgb on Friday July 21, 2023 @07:08PM (#36821219)
The American point of view is that people are American when it allows Americans to keep to their narrow minded patriotism and aren’t when it doesn’t suit it.
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by flappyeagle on Saturday July 22, 2023 @09:37AM (#36826121)
What’s an example of “aren’t when it doesn’t suit it?”
Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by vic-traill on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:58AM (#36814583)
> ... the rocket you sent to the moon was built by a German

Even an oblique reference deserves the Tom Lehrer reference [0] :-)

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio