News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:53PM (#36791406)
Wow! You can't make this up.

It's like one side of the "legacy elite" came around and smacked down a whole different side of the "legacy elite."

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by lotsofpulp on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:44PM (#36793039)
Why would you classify Baker’s family as “legacy elite”?
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by drBonkers on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:57PM (#36793263)
Are you serious?

> His parents are NYT chief White House correspondent Peter Baker, and New Yorker staff writer Susan Glasser.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by sgustard on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:28PM (#36793689)
Point is, his dad probably didn't write to the university president (which would be ironic at this point) asking him to admit his deadbeat son as a favor. The student earned his admission the same way anyone does: essays, grades, luck. I'm sure he was helped by the gift from his parents of good writing skills and some doggedness. "Legacy elite" tends to imply there's someone more deserving of his spot.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by doctorpangloss on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:15PM (#36794234)
It's not about admission. Without his parents, he would be removed from school for harassing a lesser faculty member. Like imagine making the same accusations, as a normal person, against your PI. Like he could have direct, first hand evidence of fraud, and it would be career suicide, if it weren't for his parents. Do you see?
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by brightlancer on Thursday July 20, 2023 @03:11PM (#36805301)
> Without his parents, he would be removed from school for harassing a lesser faculty member.

That's conjecture, not fact.

When I was at Georgia Tech (THWG), the administration, via the Diversity Task Force, wanted to quietly change the school fight song (better to ask forgiveness than permission). So, the Technique student paper got the story together and published it before the admin could sink it.

I don't know if anyone at the Technique ever suffered for it; my recollection was that the Diversity Task Force, and the Director of Diversity Stephanie Ray, were pretty hostile to anyone and everyone who opposed their re-education ideas, so I presume there was retribution.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090726171257/http://technique....

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by yreg on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:22PM (#36793614)
Your opinion that the people working at those position are 'legacy elite' is clearly not universal.

I'm not even sure what's 'legacy elite' supposed to mean, other than that it is I suppose negative?

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by DirkH on Thursday July 20, 2023 @12:08AM (#36796786)
You're unaware there are people who more easily get into elite schools because of their parents?

Educate yourself. It is a widespread systemic problem often called affirmative action for Whites: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

"Nepobaby" (as in nepotism baby) or simply "Legacy" is more commonly used.

This skips what is supposed to be a meritocracy and can quite straightforwardly be argued to be perpetuating an oligarchy and plutocracy

So yes, it's negative.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by yreg on Thursday July 20, 2023 @01:02AM (#36797043)
Legacy elite is not mentioned on that site, not sure how I was supposed to know what the poster means.

Anyway sounds pretty rude to claim that a specific student was admitted thanks to his parents without any evidence.

Thank you for your recommendation regarding the topics I need to educate myself on.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by bentlegen on Thursday July 20, 2023 @08:59AM (#36799806)
Basically folks have bought into conservative propaganda that white collar journalists are somehow equally “elite” as the ruling owner class.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by doctorpangloss on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:12PM (#36794194)
I too cannot believe it. Even the most diehard nonparticipating 20-year-old League-of-Legends-addicted coding-bootcamped hustlebro HN reader could fathom how being a senior journalist in the country's maybe #1 and #3 news institutions is like, a big deal.

Since it sounds like the other commenters are really confused about why it matters whose kid he is: like if you were just a regular person, you might be ejected from Stanford for pursuing something like this against a far lesser faculty member.

Imagine having first hand evidence of your PI doing fraud, which lots of people do by definition, and that is rightly seen as career suicide. Like even the postdoc in the story, who has the evidence, hasn't come clean! He can't just like, stop living the way this student can.

The students who relayed Marc Hauser's fraud to Harvard never went public with their identities. They don't get to win Polk Awards at all. They're not regarded as investigative journalists. This also prevents us from seeing what happened. I can tell you from my experience at least some of those students joined Hauser's prestigious lab for a medical school recommendation, which obviously didn't happen.

Nevermind research. Think about all the kids at e.g. private schools, younger kids, directly harmed by teachers molesting them, and you know, the kids are the ones who leave, not the teachers, for many decades and many institutions.

So it definitely mattered to be the son of some big deal people in New York.

That said, of all the things to deploy your nepobabiness on, this is a pretty good one, isn't it? Investigative journalism of the finest degree. I don't personally think that a Polk award determines the merit of the investigation; nor does even the publication, clearly. Anyone, everywhere, can be not only be an investigative journalist, but indeed a great investigative journalist. It is a legitimately great story of bringing this guy, who has clearly dodged bullets for a decade, to task.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by voz_ on Thursday July 20, 2023 @01:07AM (#36797072)
I like how, you write, and I agree. You have panache.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by tremon on Thursday July 20, 2023 @05:56AM (#36798548)
how being a senior journalist in the country's maybe #1 and #3 news institutions is like, a big deal.

Ok, so you've established how his parents may be considered elite. You haven't explained the legacy part though. Did his parents get their jobs based on his grandparents merits? Can they trace their lineage back to the Mayflower? If that is irrelevant, can you perhaps explain your conception of "legacy elite" and how it differs from regular elite?

[they] never went public with their identities[..] They're not regarded as investigative journalists

That's true. In order to be considered a journalist you have to go public with your findings. Otherwise, you may be an investigator but not a journalist.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by arcticfox on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:58PM (#36793271)
That's an odd framing of what happened here, I don't really get what it has to do with "legacy elites". I guess maybe in the sense that his parents were exceptional, but when I think of "legacy elites" I think of multi-generational wealth and power that often has little to do with individual merit (and is probably correlated against merit, in my experience).

It certainly is fascinating though. Like it will be interesting to see what happens if the kid of Ashton Eaton (gold medalist, decathlon) and Brianne Theisen-Eaton (world champion / bronze medalist, heptathlon) decides to dabble in athletics in 10-15 years.

This is pretty much a journalistic version of that scenario; if there was ever someone born to lay waste to a fraudulent Stanford president, surely it was this kid.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @08:48PM (#36795593)
Yeah this is exactly what I’m describing

His parents are “elite” and he’s following in their footsteps - hence the “legacy.”

It’s one of the few generational advantages that I’m generally ok with ethically (passing down a trade), so long as it’s not abused.

In this case that advantage seems to be being used for the greater good which is great!

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by avgcorrection on Thursday July 20, 2023 @06:37AM (#36798770)
It’s always interesting to watch the semi-elites & elites of HN discuss and rationalize the merits of class society.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by LastTrain on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:41PM (#36793861)
Why would you consider two moderately paid journalists part of the "legacy elite", how are what they do comparable - at all - to the president of Stanford University?
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by michaelt on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:24PM (#36794335)
There are many yardsticks by which you can measure elite status, other than salary. I respect Dennis Ritchie, but not for his salary.

If you measure status by the yardstick "Number of people in the white house you're on a first name basis with" then I am reasonably confident that NYT chief White House correspondent Peter Baker scores higher than the president of Stanford University.

None of this detracts from what Theo Baker has achieved, of course.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by LastTrain on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:41PM (#36794508)
Interesting. So, by that yardstick, a cook in the Whitehouse basement is legacy elite. So is my 20 year old niece. Sorry, but a more successful than average journalist is not part of the "legacy elite", whatever the fuck that means anyway.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by michaelt on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @08:02PM (#36795247)
The term 'legacy elite' is indeed ambiguous, so let me state things in a different way.

Imagine you're the President of Stanford, and some kid on the student newspaper is bothering you about some decade-old nonsense. You can barely even remember fudging the numbers and besides, everyone was doing it. Student newspapers have been railing against the university since time immemorial, but this guy seems determined to harass you personally. It bothers you and you want it to stop.

You could probably make it stop; almost everyone is guilty of something, and society has seen fit to give you your own police force. And even if you can't find any evidence of pot or drinking or piracy, why shouldn't rules about harassment, bullying and creating a hostile workplace be on your side? Even if that wouldn't hold up in court, probably someone can convince the kid that 'voluntarily' stopping would be in everyone's best interests.

Then you find out the kid's parents both write for major national periodicals. And not occasional contract work or writing the sunday style magazine, they're serious journalists.

You realise this kid has probably already received advice on the lines between journalism and harassment. Probably very well informed advice. And even if his parents don't personally write about rising censorship on college campuses, they undoubtedly know people who do.

You're going to have to do this one by the book.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by johntiger1 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:12PM (#36794197)
Exactly, don't know why they are trying to frame the kid as part of some legacy elite. We should judge Theo for his actions (commendable), not who his parents are.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by xvector on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:24AM (#36798062)
Theo's achievements wouldn't be possible without his parent's legacy to protect him. The average student journalist absolutely could not do the same thing Theo did here.
Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by brightlancer on Thursday July 20, 2023 @02:51PM (#36804983)
> two moderately paid journalists

"Peter Eleftherios Baker (born July 2, 1967) is an American journalist and author. He is the chief White House correspondent for The New York Times and a political analyst for MSNBC, and was previously a reporter for The Washington Post for 20 years."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Baker_(journalist)

I don't know what he's paid, but I doubt it's anywhere near the median for journalists, for US workers, or for the NYTimes.

Re:Stanford president resigns over manipulated research, wil... by KirillPanov on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:52PM (#36793992)