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Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by nabla9 on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:04PM (#36578811)
Those lucky sons of bitches in Norway.

1. Huge oil and gas resources

2. Huge hydropower resources. 96 per cent of all electric power generation comes from hydropower.

3. Gigantic phosphate deposits.

4. Sensibility to avoid resource curse and invest excess money.

5. Fjords designed by Slartibartfast

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by gumballindie on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:23PM (#36579054)
I’d say number four should be first in your list. Had they not been sensible they might not even have found this deposit, nor would they have had a massive sovereign fund. They’d been buried in rusty lambos and warlord money.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by vizzah on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:48PM (#36579263)
Well, investing their surplus into Facebook/META (among many other stonks) is a pretty risky trade.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by nradov on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:03PM (#36579406)
With that much money they pretty much have to invest in every publicly traded company.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by bugglebeetle on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:52PM (#36579292)
Famously saved by a former Iraqi petroleum executive, who knew about the resource curse:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2604105

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by gruez on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:03PM (#36580480)
While that sounds like an alluring narrative (ie. oil executive from country that squandered oil windfall convinces country that recently discovered oil not squander its oil windfall), I doubt that's how it actually played out. "Investing oil windfall rather than blowing it" isn't exactly a novel idea that only a former Iraqi petroleum executive can come up with. I'm sure other people in government must have had the same idea. Meanwhile the article itself only says this with regards to his involvement:

>He was an instrumental force behind the Norwegian government's decision to establish a national oil company, StatOil, and an independent industry regulator.

While I don't doubt he played a non-zero role in making it happen, I'd expect more details about his involvement (eg. meetings with ministers) if he actually played a significant role.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by bugglebeetle on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:12PM (#36580545)
This is honestly such a bizarre degree of skepticism for something so widely reported, I’ll try not to impute what might be motivating it. Farouk Al-Kasim was knighted by the King of Norway for his efforts in this of all things, so no, not really. You’re quite wide of the mark. His guidance was also shaped more by the experience of Netherlands in the 60s than Iraq, as is cited in the article.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by vages on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:02PM (#36580835)
Norway had successfully georgist tax policies in place for hydropower for half a century at that point. He was not fighting as much of an uphill battle as he would almost anywhere else:

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2022/05/17/norway-the-once-and... https://progressandpoverty.substack.com/p/norways-sovereign-...

(Update: This is not to detract from his achievement, but to harp on the fact that Georgism is one of the most useful, underrated tools in the economic toolboxt)

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by sundvor on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:39PM (#36581102)
* * *
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by tommiegannert on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:53AM (#36583583)
Why would Australia be doing that? What's the threat? That the foreign mining companies leave? Wouldn't that be a neutral outcome to Australia? Then the mines could be seized for non-operation somehow, and given to domestic companies with a 78% tax?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by tfourb on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:23AM (#36584185)
Mostly capture of politics by shareholder interests. Once a political system becomes thoroughly permeated by the interests of a specific industry (i.e. through campaign contributions, individuals moving from industry into politics, labour interests, etc.) it becomes quite hard for governments to make sensible decisions in that area, because industry interests and identity politics at some point become indistinguishable. See also Germany's car producers and the military-industrial-complex in the U.S.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:37AM (#36584275)
See also Alberta, Canada
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by MandieD on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:55AM (#36584437)
And howdy from Texas and its somewhat widely distributed mineral rights, creating a landed gentry that sometimes doesn't even have to deal with the inconveniences of owning said land, but often has, on a personal level, an even more vested interest in continued petroleum extraction than the average employee of Exxon-Mobil.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by sundvor on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @10:31PM (#36594900)
Yes.

Political campaign contributions is the perfect euphemism for corruption.

Corporations aren't allowed to make direct campaign contributions in Norway; political campaigns are paid for by the public.

(I've been an expat for over two decades, please correct me if anything has significantly changed - of course the companies still have political influence through choices of where to invest etc, but at least it's nowhere as blatant).

One might say it would be a waste of taxpayer money to do the same in Australia, but in the end we would be far better off by cutting off the direct corporate influence.

We might not have gotten an EV tax instead of incentives if we had politicians not directly receiving money from big petrol.

And we might just be able to raise corporate mining taxes to a far better level, clearly state that if you don't like it then just pack up and leave - and let someone else who is willing come profit instead.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by fulltimeloser on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:16PM (#36578975)
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by royjacobs on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:20PM (#36579020)
I'm fairly sure Italy would happily trade some pasta-based dish for unlimited hydroelectric energy.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by manuelmoreale on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:35PM (#36579159)
As an Italian I have my doubts ahah
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by benj111 on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:57PM (#36579345)
Tinned spaghetti hoops?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by fastball on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:08AM (#36582793)
Italians will let you take their pasta over your dead body.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by intothemild on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:28AM (#36584704)
As an Italian living in Norway.... No
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by avgcorrection on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:34PM (#36580215)
This is because Jamie Oliver hates brunost.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by timeon on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:53PM (#36580382)
You can't take this list seriously. Cheddar has similar score as Gruyère. Or Norwegian Salmon similar as 'Fish and Chips'. No wonder English cuisine is rated so high there.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by YurgenJurgensen on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:07PM (#36580501)
Sounds like someone hasn't had real cheddar.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by timeon on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:19PM (#36580583)
Ok I'm not going to make flamewar over cheese so I'll just say, that I was maybe bit unfair.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by speedgoose on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @01:25AM (#36582544)
Almost all food is great if you get the proper high end quality.

What matters more in my opinion is what you can expect to taste most of the time. If you go to the supermarket or an average restaurant in a medium sized city for example.

As a pedantic Frenchman immigrant living in Norway, I would say that Norway isn’t the best about food but also not that bad. They have good stuff and terrible stuff like most countries and once you know what to eat you can live happy.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by YurgenJurgensen on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:23AM (#36583767)
Generic cheddar isn’t usually considered for these ‘National specialties’ lists though. I believe the full name is West Country Cheddar, like how not all sparkling wine is Champagne.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by short_sells_poo on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:33AM (#36583840)
Fermented fish is artisanal and yet borderline war crime at the same time :)
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by ascorbic on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @01:35PM (#36589937)
You can buy great Cheddar in almost any supermarket in the UK
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by petre on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @01:30AM (#36582560)
The Fiskesuppe looks tasty, although my new favourite food is Zuppa di Cozze.

If there's something quite fun to do in Norway and Denmark in just about any type of weather, it's shore fishing and eating fish.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by laxd on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:10AM (#36584584)
Fiskesuppe just means "fish soup", and the ways of making it are as varied as the name suggests. Putting a score on it is nonsense.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by petre on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:04AM (#36585027)
Yup, I know. So it Zuppa di Cozze and that's the beauty of it.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:07AM (#36584566)
Luv me fish, luve me chips, simple as.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by Kuinox on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:37PM (#36580684)
tasteatlas is know to make stupid list, and here a new one.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by heywhatupboys on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:55AM (#36584439)
lmao, some stupid list. Scandinavia has world renowned cuisine, with some of the best (THE best) restaurants in the world, new inventions, and a food culture quickly spreading throughout the world.

Then some live laugh love travel girls and guy come to "list cuisines".

What a stupid list. I could as well just have pull something out of my arse by vacation photos posted here by HN contributors. If you think that list is in anyway meaningful or sophisticated I have a whole highway to sell you

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by rad_gruchalski on Monday July 03, 2023 @05:47PM (#36579254)
And the population of Norway is 5.4 million. For comparison, metropolitan Berlin is 6.1 million.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by camillomiller on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:11PM (#36579474)
? The latest official figure for Berlin is 3.6 million. You mean the Berlin + Brandeburg metropolitan region, which is Berlin (city state) plus an area that’s at least as big as the metro area including the Berlin city suburbs expansions into Brandenburg. With the resulting area, 6.2 million people still amount to a quite low density compared to many other cities. Paris would have been a better example.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by rad_gruchalski on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:32PM (#36579676)
Have I not said metro Berlin? Yes, Berlin is 3.6, metro Berlin is 6.1.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by hju22_-3 on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:07PM (#36579439)
Number two isn't very accurate nowadays, since they're exporting it and importing more expensive and pollutive power instead.

A certified 4 dimensional big brain achronal chess move us puny mortals are incapable of comprehending.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by avgcorrection on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:52PM (#36581195)
The current Norwegian energy import/export policy is completely stupid.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by rqtwteye on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:34PM (#36580214)
They need to work on their weather though.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by avgcorrection on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:35PM (#36580223)
See point 1 and climate change.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by timeon on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:47PM (#36580316)
There was first tropical night of the year already at the beginning of June in Oslo.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by snovv_crash on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:20PM (#36580590)
It isn't about temperature, it's about sunlight. Norway, despite its material wealth and natural beauty, has one of the world's highest suicide rates.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by avgcorrection on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:51PM (#36581182)
The tilt of the Earth has nothing to do with “the weather” (that you can do something with).
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by puchatek on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:32AM (#36582970)
Norway's suicide rate is average. That's Finland you're thinking of.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by nabla9 on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:28AM (#36583384)
Today in Oslo:

    sunrise 04:03 
    sunset  22:39 
Nights are very short in the Nordics during the summer. There is so much sun you don't know what to do with.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by oblio on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:40AM (#36583479)
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by nabla9 on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:16AM (#36583719)
Yet people in Nordics live longer and are happier than people in south.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by oblio on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:31AM (#36584730)
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by heywhatupboys on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:17AM (#36584623)
source?

Or are you just so racist that all nordic countries are the same to you?

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by heywhatupboys on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:43AM (#36585915)
p.s. many african and asian countries come before any nordic one
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by snovv_crash on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:57PM (#36591141)
Just got back from holiday in Norway and chatting to several locals they were under the impression that it was a huge problem. Looking at stats it seems that on an international basis it's it so high though, maybe just relative to other local issues.

The lack of proper nights (even if in the south there was technically a sunset) was really tough for me though, it messed with my sleeping patterns a lot. I can imagine winter being even worse.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by weatherlite on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @01:52AM (#36582696)
Yep. that's what happens we decide 4 million people get the territory the size of Western Europe more or less. They were there first so ... makes sense.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by namaria on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:11AM (#36582822)
What? Norway is smaller than Spain. And why do you think countries were distributed to people by some sort of collective decision?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by oblio on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:38AM (#36583469)
I'm guessing they're counting the EEZ and maybe the fishing zone?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by weatherlite on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:53AM (#36583579)
> And why do you think countries were distributed to people by some sort of collective decision? Countries were not "distributed

I obviously don't think that, hence what I wrote. I think they were in many cases fought for and the strong got the best land for the most part. There was no collective decision making. And I'm hinting that maybe the current situation doesn't make much sense for team humans.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by namaria on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:21AM (#36583751)
> I think they were in many cases fought for and the strong got the best land for the most part

That's an incredibly simplistic way to see History. Lands are not ranked from best to worse. How a modern population ended up where is a long and complicated process of migration and moved back and forth several times. Great lands have been scorched and abandoned and changing technology, trade and population patterns change drastically what is great land from one generation to another.

Not to mention until very, very recently, Norway was very poor land. The people who ended up being there for the oil boom in the 70s were not, by any means, some very strong people who fought their way into prime land.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by weatherlite on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:32AM (#36583832)
You don't see extreme inequality here? OK guess we'll disagree then. Also - very poor compared to who? Compared to Africa - probably not. Compared to China, also probably not. It was very poor compared to itself and a few super wealthy entities. When was the last case of extreme hunger in Norway ? Happened quite recently in both China and India and still happening in Africa.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by heavenlyblue on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:03AM (#36584074)
When Norway fought for it's territory we didn't know how to use oil yet
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by heywhatupboys on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:16AM (#36584621)
lmao, when Danes, Swedes, Norwegians travelled as vikings it was because our lands were horrible and we searched for fertile lands... Norway was poor until recently. Like really poor.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by karencarits on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:25AM (#36586322)
I guess it depends on your measures, but it's nuanced. For example, in 1900, Norway had the longest life expectancy in the World https://www.faktisk.no/artikler/z25rp/hvor-fattig-var-norge-...
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by magicalhippo on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:57PM (#36589341)
Our relative wealth[1] has a lot to do with a lack of wars and conflicts, and a fairly progressive, social mindset. Not just that we had a lot of natural resources to export.

[1]: https://www.norgeshistorie.no/industrialisering-og-demokrati...

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by fastball on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:04AM (#36582771)
Were they there first or were they there last?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by _Algernon_ on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:36AM (#36583454)
>They were there first so ...

I'm pretty sure the Sámi would disagree on that one.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by anon0023 on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:33AM (#36585273)
That's inaccurate.

The current Sami people may have been first in the northern parts of Norway. The actual time line is difficult to establish (politically charged). What we can say is that the current Sami people were first in the northern parts of Norway compared to the "germanic" group living in the south.

Most discussions end up in agreeing that there were two main groups in Norway. One started from the south of Norway and spread north, while the Sami people started from the north and spread south. Finding out who occupied a certain area first is very difficult, and have a tendency to be based more on politics and patriotism, than scientific facts. (on both sides)

Both groups have been in Norway for thousands of years, so there is actually not much point in debating who was first in Norway. What they can agree on is to make sure that the rights of all are protected. That was not the case historically, where the Sami people were not treated well.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by arcticbull on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:12AM (#36582835)
For those unfamiliar with the resource curse [1] this isn't usually a ticket to victory. The largest proven oil reserve in the world isn't in Saudi Arabia, it's in Venezuela - the poorest country in the Americas.

What Norway deserves huge credit for is the way they manage their natural resources, and how they designed their sovereign wealth fund.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by Chris2048 on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:49AM (#36583982)
But didn't Venezuela explicitly kick out foreign oil corps, despite not having a sophisticated oil extraction industry itself?
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by arcticbull on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:54AM (#36584012)
I believe that kind of behavior explicitly qualifies under 'resource curse.' Even if they hadn't, check out the 'enclave effects' section of the Wikipedia article.

> "Oil production generally takes place in an economic enclave, meaning it has few direct effects on the rest of the economy."

Venezuela is just one of many examples.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by hfkwer on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:52AM (#36584921)
Venezuela's poverty has as much to do with incompetent leadership as it has with the US embargo.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by arcticbull on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:07PM (#36592511)
Which is also mentioned in the article -_- in the "Violence and Conflict" section. Note that oil-rich states are both the targets and instigators of conflict. For instance, Venezuela's recent conflict with Guyana after their recent discovery of oil. [1, 2]

[1] https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-guyana-territorial-disp...

[2] https://apnews.com/article/guyana-oil-discovery-money-14c23a...

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by ur-whale on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:29AM (#36582956)
> Those lucky sons of bitches in Norway.

Well sure.

But then they also have Lutefisk [1] and one of the world's most annoying population of mosquitoes.

You can't have it all good.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by saiya-jin on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:09AM (#36584106)
Can't comment on that processed fish matter but mosquitos there are beyond ridiculous in the summer (Finland ain't much better). Having dozens of bites on every bit of skin that isn't completely covered, constantly. One hitchhiker who I've met who had his one hitching hand uncovered counted 168 bites, on one hand, within 2 hours. When you hike, you have easily 100 of them sitting on you, your backpack, everything. They are also huge compared to central Europe.

Sure, you get used to being full of red spots, you stop scratching them, but occasionally you run some part of your skin against something and all hell breaks loose.

Then you come back to sanity and realize freedom has many shapes, and being able to dress as you like in summer is definitely one of them.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by throwawaylinux on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @04:02AM (#36583628)
Norway really should have their ill gotten carbon profiteering assets stripped away and redistributed to less advantaged nations. Hopefully that will come soon, and this rock deposit could help pay for some of the interest.
Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by MandieD on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:51AM (#36584388)
Point 4: as a notorious economics philosopher once said, "never get high on your own supply."

Along with not immediately blowing the petro money on a national level, Norway taxes petroleum products more heavily for local consumption than even its high tax neighbors - for a long time, gasoline was cheaper in Germany than in Norway, and Germany has high fuel taxes like pretty much every other European country (EU and non).

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:06AM (#36584555)
I mean it'll be more expensive, but since their economy is doing so well I can imagine it's still a lower percentage of people's incomes than in e.g. Germany; all is relative.

I mean cost of living is higher in cities but so is income. Usually. Sometimes.

Re:Norway discovers Phosphate deposit large enough to supply... by MandieD on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:18AM (#36584639)
It's a high enough petrol tax it prevented Norway from being full of gas guzzlers, and that it has been a disproportionately large EV market, despite being a) a giant oil producer and b) cold.