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Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ShakataGaNai on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:39PM (#36510657)
This is interesting, and I suppose has a use of "data over time" but I fail to see how this testing is of any actionable value for the average person. So you're exposed, and PFAS is in EVERYTHING.... so ... what should I do? Nothing realistically. Unless I find an obvious source like my water, there isn't much I can do besides replacing my cooking pans. I can replace my pans without this test.

It's a little like those ads to sell you a full body MRI. Most doctors recommend against them because you're likely to do more harm to yourself than they actually fix something.

If you're concerned about PFAS, live a healthy life and skip spending money on the testing. Live somewhere with PFAS in the water? Get a reverse osmosis filter. Replace your cookware with something that doesn't contain PFAS. Don't use storage containers for food with PFAS. Check your water bottles.

Then live your life, because until we change as a society, there is only so much you can do.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:45PM (#36510731)
I think for certain high risk populations, specifically pregnant women or women planning on becoming pregnant, it makes sense.

Based on the new clinical recommendations, my 10.86 ng/mL level puts me at elevated risk for preeclampsia (if I were a women/pregnant). Knowing that could mean my BP during pregnancy is more closely monitored, with a BP cuff for example.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by prepend on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:53PM (#36510853)
> I think for certain high risk populations, specifically pregnant women or women planning on becoming pregnant, it makes sense.

Does it though? What will a pregnant woman do based on her results? Will having PFAS affect someone’s decision about becoming pregnant?

Pregnant women are going to monitor BP anyway. And the intervention is $100 for a BP cuff so that’s cheaper than the test. So we’re better off just recommending monitoring BP more closely than this test.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:23PM (#36511313)
Since this is an out of pocket test not covered by medicaid/medicare, I don't know if the value based care argument is that relevant. I know what you're saying though.

The value we provide: If people want to know, they can now know.

I also think not making the test accessible also has downsides.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by prepend on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @08:44PM (#36514862)
It’s good the test is available.

What I mean is what would justify someone spending $400. The example of pregnancy is not a good one, as someone is better off just monitoring blood pressure (which is already common advice for all expectant mothers) for $100 instead of paying for this test.

I think value based healthcare is more important when people pay themselves.

Since there’s no intervention based on the results, it’s not a good idea for people until the results are actionable.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by 0cf8612b2e1e on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:56PM (#36510899)
Time to start blood letting. A human has ~5 liters of blood and blood donations are 0.5 liters, every two months. So with a year of effort, could cut your levels in half (0.9^6 = 53%).
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:07PM (#36511084)
I believe they let you donate every 6 weeks
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by stepbeek on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:37PM (#36511504)
Depends on country. UK is every three months.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ShakataGaNai on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:46PM (#36510754)
That's fair. So like any other testing, this is only useful for a small population, and you should consult your doctor first.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:52PM (#36510846)
You'd want a good reason to test
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by prepend on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:51PM (#36510827)
According to their site you should consult an attorney.

This falls into the “neat, but what can I do” category and at $400, someone really needs to be into self data.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ShakataGaNai on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:03PM (#36511018)
Well $400 for them to order the test for you, then however much for quest to actually do the test.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:51PM (#36510831)
I would also say this attitude was pervasive when we used leaded gasoline, which widely contaminated the biosphere, roads and people.

It's everywhere. We all have it. Why bother.

I think we now know there's no safe level of lead in the blood. If you have suspected exposure in 2023, doctors quantify your lead level through a blood test and if it's elevated, recommend a medical procedure called chelation to remove it.

With PFAS, the medicine is just starting to catch up to the horrors of the news cycle.

But I think in the future, PFAS contamination is going to be treated in a similar way to lead exposure. That is, medically.

But right now, it's easy to throw up ones hands and say, it's all fucked. Why bother doing anything.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by eutectic on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:45PM (#36511610)
Well, in the case of lead, I don't think it was irrational for individuals to feel disempowered. The solution was regulatory and societal change, but how many people want to devote their lives to being PFAS crusaders?
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:08PM (#36511881)
Society is starting to change. EPAs super aggressive new water quality standards. Bans on PFAS in packaging.

PFAS crusader haha.

Edit: forgot the word water

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ShakataGaNai on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:01PM (#36510998)
So the "what should I do?" was the big question.

Even in your OP, you said you didn't know what to do about it. Neither does the website say much other than basically "lawyer". If there is something I can do to help me, then there is a purpose to the test. This chelation you mentioned.

But again, this should be a "See a doctor first" situation. What are the risks of chelation? Is it safer for me to have PFAS than go through chelation?

The lawyers ( https://www.pintas.com/pfas-class-action-lawsuit/can-pfas-be... ) say there is nothing I can do. So I should sue.

The news says there might be a way soon ( https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-way-destroy-p... ) to get rid of PFAS, but nothing about from the human body.

At least the EPA has some suggestions about how to reduce your risk: https://www.epa.gov/pfas/meaningful-and-achievable-steps-you...

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by giantg2 on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:41PM (#36511567)
"to get rid of PFAS, but nothing about from the human body."

We have some really old tech that can reduce your levels -blood letting. (... or donation).

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:09PM (#36511102)
I don't have all the answers. Just trying to provide one small solution in the chain.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ars on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:09PM (#36511106)
So far as I know chelation is not effective for PFAS, chelation is for metals.

PFAS will eventually (slowly) leave your body - focus on not getting anymore, not on removing it. I posted a comment with suggestions elsewhere in this thread.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:15PM (#36511188)
Correct. I was using lead chelation as an analogy for the medical management of PFAS contamination.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by azinman2 on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @05:24PM (#36512804)
Evidence so far is that plasma and blood donations can remove it slowly.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by dingnuts on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:56PM (#36510895)
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the global lead poisoning hypothesis that was popularized by Neil DeGrasse Tyson's remake of Cosmos was determined to be based on extremely scant evidence and may have been outright false
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by JBorrow on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:58PM (#36510935)
What are you talking about? This is an ongoing global public health crisis: https://www.who.int/news/item/23-10-2022-almost-1-million-pe...
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by rcme on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:16PM (#36511968)
A recent study in Nee Zealand found that blood lead levels of 3.5 micrograms / dL, which is the lowest easily detectable level, were associated with a drop of 1 IQ. People during the times of lead paint and leaded gasoline often had levels of 80 micrograms / dL. It seriously messed them up.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:22PM (#36512045)
Our first version of the site was PFAS.wtf but that didn't test well
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by rcme on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:14PM (#36511939)
Lead in the blood is really just a side effect of chronic exposure. What’s currently considered elevated is something like 3.5 micrograms / dL. It’s equivalent to just a few specks of lead dust in your blood. The bigger issue is that lead in your blood means you have lead in your bones where it will poison you throughout your life.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mhardcastle on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:53PM (#36510848)
Donating blood or plasma has evidence of reducing pfas. If I knew I had high measured levels, I'd certainly think about doing it more.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8994130/

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by haskellandchill on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @02:55PM (#36510889)
Are you giving someone bad blood in that case?
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by bauruine on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:04PM (#36511026)
The negative health effects of PFAS are completely irrelevant if the alternative to this "bad blood" is death.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by giantg2 on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:42PM (#36511576)
Generally agree, but that could be true of many other things like lead too. So we have to be careful not to take it to the extreme.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by npongratz on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:01PM (#36510988)
I can direct you to answers I got a couple weeks ago when I asked a similar question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36261100
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by jsharf on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:04PM (#36511827)
Well, assuming they likely have some PFAS already in their system, you might just be giving them blood with the same concentration of PFAS that they already have.
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mianosm on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:07PM (#36511870)
Not always, as quite often the donation is on hand, but not necessarily used.

Also: better to save a life and either average down whatever PFA count they have, or bolster their blood volume so they can start producing their own lower PFA infested hemoglobin.

Lesser of evils, and kind of a win win: if everyone was blood letting for the safety and humanity of others.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mhardcastle on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @04:40PM (#36512288)
If you're donating because you know your levels are elevated then I'd agree with this thought.

(While also agreeing with those in the thread saying that high-PFAS donations are likely often better than no donations)

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by ars on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:04PM (#36511034)
There's tons of things you can do.

What you should not bother doing is replacing your cooking pans because PFAS does not come from that. (Nor does it come from food storage containers or water bottles.)

The first thing to do is avoid paper dishes, no paper straws or any other kind of compostable dishware. The are frequently sprayed with PFAS to make them waterproof, and unless you are buying them yourself and checking you have no way to know what kind they are.

Avoid snowboarding - snowboards (and skis also I think) are sprayed with PFAS to make them slippery. The snow in the area will be covered in it, so just don't do that kind of sport.

Check your outdoor clothing, and kind of breathable clothing that is also waterproof is most likely coated with PFAS to make that happen. This is not just rain jackets, but also active-wear advertised as "quick drying".

Add a carbon filter (any kind) to your drinking water, you don't need reverse osmossis, carbon works fine. And helps for tons of other things you don't know are in there - plus it tastes better.

As a general rule any time you see an object that should get soaked with water stay dry be careful!

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by mdrew on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:26PM (#36511353)
Those waterproof jackets from REI that magically shed water droplets... for 9 months until the coating wears off and your jacket is just soggy
Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by upsidesinclude on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:21PM (#36511283)
>so ... what should I do?

>replace my pans

>Get a reverse osmosis filter. Replace your cookware with something that doesn't contain PFAS. Don't use storage containers for food with PFAS. Check your water bottles.

Oh, so all of that would be a good start for anyone and everyone.

The test can help to determine if something, like blood donation, might be a reasonable course of action for a specific person.

This is a great test and a worthwhile addition to our understanding of how prevalent these substances are within the the body.

Any reduction of PFAS in the blood would be beneficial as they are endocrine disruptors.

Re:Show HN: PFAS.report – Measure the forever chemicals in y... by eutectic on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:43PM (#36511582)
PFAS are used in the manufacture of teflon pans, but teflon pans themselves are not a major source (as I understand it).