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Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by silveraxe93 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:11AM (#36430382)
Have you ever done acid? If you want to reduce drug use, you should legalise LSD and make it easy to buy.

Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life. With no long term health effects from one dose.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by rocketbop on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:42AM (#36430620)
Yea for sure. Mushrooms and LSD are not really popular and not drugs drug addicts gravitate towards.

I don’t thin legalisation would hugely increase use.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by spoiler on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:12AM (#36430929)
Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either.

This might be anecdotal, but even though they can be fun, but they're also very exhausting and make you introspective and also kinda encourage you to think about improving different aspec of your life. Sure, there's some bad trips that make people psychotic, but I think that legalisation and regulations would help protect those peope, rather than harm them, because there's usually an underlying condition that triggers such an episode. On the flip side, I've had bad trips a few times and they usually taught me a lot about myself, the people around me, and how I lived life at the, which in turn pushed me to change for the better, and improve some aspects of my life.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by bryanrasmussen on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:29AM (#36431112)
>Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either.

these arguments never seem to have a separate addictive from non-addictive drugs component.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by sowbug on Thursday June 22, 2023 @11:08AM (#36433306)
Not that I have any data to back up this anecdote, but you don't see people in rehab for tryptamines. But you do for alcohol, coke, heroin, and meth.
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by BasedAnon on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:39AM (#36430592)
>Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life

You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives, even if the experience is negative. It's silly to act like people don't self-harm.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by silveraxe93 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:43AM (#36431274)
If they want to escape their lives they'll just become an alcoholic.

I'm not denying that people will self-harm. But the argument that people will self-harm with LSD needs to ignore that there's plenty of better drugs legalised already

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by BasedAnon on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:28AM (#36432683)
Alcohol is much worse than LSD
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by soligern on Thursday June 22, 2023 @11:34AM (#36433759)
In a way. It has much worse physical outcomes over the long term especially if you’re drinking humongous amounts. However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life. Anecdotally from that perspective LSD is way, way more destructive. It can reconstruct you as a shell of the person you were, and very quickly. I’ve seen it happen so many times and anyone arguing the alcohol is worse than LSD is missing the forest for the tree.
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by skyyler on Thursday June 22, 2023 @12:37PM (#36434797)
>However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life.

Go to a couple of AA meetings and say that again.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by pixl97 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:56AM (#36433108)
>You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives

Hey, lets optimize society for human happiness and enjoyment without escapism then...

Moloch: "Now just hold the fuck up, I have some corporations to run"

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by Communitivity on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:38AM (#36431214)
"no long term health effects from one dose" does not account for the possibility of persistent flashbacks, or for bad trips that can cause lasting psychological trauma.

LSD bonds with something in the brain, such that it causes persistent flashbacks more than any other hallucinogen, sometimes years later. Taking it just once to try it might not have any effect, or might cause flashbacks for the rest of your life. Depends on your personal neurochemistry, the dosage, form of dosing, and your mental state. A friend who had taken LSD described it to me once something like this: LSD sometimes takes any cracks (neurosis or psychosis) in your mind and expands them wide open, forcing you to look into them. If you're aware of them already and they're minor, it can be helpful, sometimes expanding your mind to new capabilities. If you've been unaware or worse, in denial, or they're major, then you get a bad trip that may come back to haunt you over and over again over the years.

Flashbacks that continue to occur after the original drug effects have worn off are a medically recognized phenomenon, which is documented in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) as hallucinogen persisting perception disorder.

Flashbacks typically happen in the days or weeks following ingestion of the drug but can happen months or even years after the drug use has been discontinued.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by silveraxe93 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:53AM (#36431387)
Eh... fine. People won't come out unscathed in literally all cases.

However the risk from one dose is minimal. If your risk threshold is so close to 0 then we should be banning way more things today.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by scrozart on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:30AM (#36432727)
I've done LSD numerous times, including "heroic" doses, as have many of my friends, starting 30 years ago (I haven't in a while as i no longer feel the need to blow open those doors).

Not one of us has ever had a single flashback, let alone "persistent" flashbacks. If they were ever really an issue, it was long ago with different/absurdly strong formulations.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by GuB-42 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @12:42PM (#36434902)
I don't believe in the "LSD binds to something in the brain and this causes flashbacks". LSD obviously binds to something in the brain during the trip, like all psychoactive substances, but after that, it is gone. LSD degrades relatively easily, you only get micrograms of it and there are known metabolic pathways.

A more convincing theory for flashbacks is that they are similar to PTSD. LSD can give really intense and memorable experiences, and in the case of a bad trip, they can be considered traumatic. Symptoms show similarities too. Essentially, flashbacks are just memories, good or bad, and in the worst cases, so bad as to haunt you for years.

Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) is not like flashbacks. As the name suggests, it affects perception, i.e. senses, commonly in the form of visual noise, distinct from what is experienced during a trip. Think something like tinnitus. We know it exists, but the details are unclear.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by PaulHoule on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:49AM (#36432140)
The Netherlands has struggled to commercialize a safe psychedelic.

LSD is not so dangerous per se if you are in good hands. It does leave you discombobulated for 12 hours or so and put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble. Mushrooms are a little better because the duration is shorter but they still didn't find the problems acceptable. They tried the stimulating and hallucinatory 2C-T2 which is somehow entirely non-cosmic but I think even that failed market testing.

After all these years a pastor I know is providing psilocybin therapy for the terminally ill which they are doing in a tightly controlled

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect

environment and of course accompanying people for the whole tip.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by cmh89 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:38AM (#36432825)
Amsterdam already has a problem with alcohol getting people in trouble. Millions of people take mushrooms every year with no issues.

The problem is we have such a high bar for pyschedelics that isn't applied to other recreational drugs.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by totallywrong on Thursday June 22, 2023 @12:36PM (#36434753)
> put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble

Funny you say that because I couldn't have wished for a better trip than roaming Amsterdam with my friends when I tried mushrooms all those years ago. The canals, the architecture.. it was a fairy tale and I remember it dearly.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by PaulHoule on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:27PM (#36436593)
I remember getting bitched out for wandering around stoned in Het Vondelpark.
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by andelink on Saturday June 24, 2023 @04:36AM (#36456750)
Was just about to say this. My shrooms trip in Amsterdam was nothing short of magical. Such a colorful, vibrant city. It was beautiful
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by scruple on Thursday June 22, 2023 @11:26AM (#36433622)
> Have you ever done acid?

Yes, and a variety of other psychedelics in my early 20s. I remember spending time on erowid and then seeking out substances. Mescaline, peyote, ketamine, psylicobin, acid, GHB, DXM, others I'm forgetting.

I wish I had never done any of it.

Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by novelwere on Friday June 23, 2023 @01:36AM (#36443203)
Can i ask why?
Re:Brains on Drugs: How tinkering with consciousness became ... by scruple on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:30AM (#36447293)
I had a few bad trips, one being very bad and which changed the direction of my life. It also made me realize that I was doing these things for the wrong reasons (mostly peer pressure, or a desire to fit in with certain crowds, etc.). In retrospect, it just wasn't very fun, and certainly wasn't a useful way (for me) to live my life.