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Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by rubicon33 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:11AM (#36327181)
> While a premium VR headset built over iOS apps is a step in the right direction, we worry it could seriously hinder the device's ability to serve as a true laptop replacement.

This remains the holy grail for work focussed headsets. Can I truly replace my laptop with it?

It seems the Vision Pro allows you to pair and cast screens, but not replace an entire macbook pro. A disappointment for sure but maybe it will be available in V2, V3, etc.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by n8cpdx on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:43AM (#36327658)
Except for software dev workflows, I think iPad/iOS app ecosystem is a more viable laptop replacement than the Linux app ecosystem.

They claim full desktop office suite support, but it won’t run Excel. iPad runs Excel - and Logic and Final Cut and Photoshop and Affinity Designer and Outlook and…

But regardless, VP is clearly positioned as a laptop display replacement, which is I think more realistic; iPhone can also be a laptop replacement (it is for many iOS users who don’t have computers) but realistically many people find a lot of value in both computing paradigms.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by chaostheory on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:43PM (#36328627)
I agree with your point, but Office 365 is slowly transitioning into being primarily a PWA. It should be able to run on Linux as well.

The big question is if MS has a special Vision AR VR experience

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by LegitShady on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:02PM (#36327952)
I tried to run just an ipad pro for office type tasks for a while and just found it supremely limiting. Just being able to run excel isn't enough. It's positioned as a laptop replacement to justify its cost, but I don't think the ios/ipados software ecosystem in any way replaces even a windows desktop.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by o1y32 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:19AM (#36327300)
If they start with iOS, there is no way they redo it with macOS in the next version. Also the UI is completely different and the input system is different. I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by culturestate on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:25AM (#36327404)
> I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.

I would happily spend $3.5k on an insanely portable, wraparound, multi-monitor setup for my $1k MacBook.

If this thing works anywhere close to as well as they say it does for that use case, I won’t be able to get my credit card out fast enough. The fact that it could be used independently is just a cherry on top.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by npace12 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:33AM (#36327504)
you can only get 1 screen streamed from the mac at 4k they said
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by rbreaves on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:42AM (#36327652)
Pretty sure with RDP type apps and lower res you can easily push 2 or 4 screens... but yea probably not at 4k. Sheesh that isn't even necessary for people doing productive work. Except for maybe video editors.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by taskforcegemini on Thursday June 15, 2023 @06:35AM (#36338568)
resolutiin requirements change dramatically when vr is involved. you don't want to be reading blurry text and pixels don't map 1:1 when "projected" in vr
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by jonhohle on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:49AM (#36327767)
Window layers are already separate and independently renderable. It would be great to get just all windows as opposed to a Mac desktop panel where windows are stuck inside. (Kind of how Classic apps could run within the OS X window space.) Stage Manager may have laid the groundwork for window groups operating outside the typical desktop or even virtual screen idiom.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by jedberg on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:21PM (#36328258)
Ok, but that's version one. Also, not sure I need more than that. Looking at what I have open on my Mac right now, all but two (the IDE and shell) have equivalent iOS apps. So in theory I could run all of those on the Vision Pro in other windows.

Pretty sure one 4k window is more than enough to handle the things I can't do on the Vision natively.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by karkisuni on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:32AM (#36327484)
The APIs are mostly cross-platform now, and the SoCs are the same, so the main reason you wouldn't want to just copy a Mac app to the iPad is the touch input. If eye tracking is as good as they say, that's a lot closer to a mouse than touch controls.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by jayd16 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:55AM (#36327843)
Kernel flavor doesn't matter. The real question is if you can install any app or is everything through a locked down app store.

Even if it's MacOS, what do you think the answer to that question will be?

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by SkyPuncher on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:32AM (#36327494)
With the direction they're taking all of the "Continuity" stuff, I suspect the line won't really matter in the future.

You'll work near to your laptop. Programs will run directly on the laptop, but the windows (not the entire desktop) will stream to the headset. Vision Pro will manage "the space" and your laptop/desktop will run the heavy lifting.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by eddieroger on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:45AM (#36327689)
Yeah, that's the answer I expected, too, particularly based on Apple's video of the MacBook going black and the desktop moving to the headset. They already have the ability to broadcast a display (not even the primary) to an iPad or AppleTV, so surely the Vision Pro can receive that broadcast as well, and now you've got 1-or-many desktop windows in addition to whatever native apps exist.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by phire on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:47AM (#36327738)
But why not just do it on device?

The CPU in Vision Pro is more than powerful enough for most tasks; It's the exact same CPU that Apple are shipping in many of their laptops.

With the continuity workflow, I'll always need bring both my headset and my laptop with me if I might want to do anything beyond what the headset can do by itself. I'm also concerned about the additional latency that continuity will probably introduce.

Yes, continuity is a useful feature for when I'm doing stuff that does actually need the extra processing power of a proper workstation, but it shouldn't be the only solution.

(The cynical part of me is pretty sure it know the answer. Apple wants a locked down ecosystem just like they have on the ipad and iphone)

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by SkyPuncher on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:01PM (#36327929)
Vision Pro is powerful enough for "phone" or "tablet" type tasks, but I don't think it's powerful enough for actual work.

Development, Design, Video Editing, etc, etc still require additional capacity than what the Vision Pro is offering.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by spacedcowboy on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:39PM (#36328540)
It has an M2, dude. It's plenty powerful for "actual work".
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by SkyPuncher on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:26PM (#36329315)
The M2 is a category of chip, not a specific model.

They'll likely need to put something comparable to the iPad M2 in there to manage heat. That iPad M2 has about 1/3 the performance of my MBP M2.

Add in the fact that you're rendering a spatial world and you quickly have a lot of resources tied up.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by edmundsauto on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @07:49PM (#36334513)
I think only 16Gb of RAM, though. And it needs a chunk of that to run the OS and “finder”.

I also think that if this were a feasible use case, apple would promote it. They are clearly positioning this headset as adjacent to the dev space, based on price and how they previewed it. And Apple is one of those companies that if you find yourself swimming upstream against how they want you to use it… it might be reason to find a different platform.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by spacedcowboy on Thursday June 15, 2023 @12:35PM (#36343060)
They do, though. There's an app-store icon right in the video. That very much implies it'll be downloading and running apps locally.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by RandallBrown on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:27PM (#36328343)
The Vision Pro has the same processor as my MacBook Pro. It will be able to handle most of that stuff just fine as long as the apps are built for the interface.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by SkyPuncher on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:32PM (#36329408)
The M2 is a lineup of chips with a range of specs (much like i3, i5, i7, i9 lineups). The M2 that powers the iPad is 1/3 the performance of the M2 in my MBP. I suspect the Vision Pro's M2 will be somewhere in the middle to manage heat and battery life. While the Vision Pro M2 can technically "run it", it will still run faster on a dedicated external machine that can handle the heat and power better.

Add in the need to render a very large virtual space and you end up with a lot of capacity being used by default. That's likely fine for "iPad like tasks" (web-browsing, email, messaging), but it seems insufficient for anything requiring processing or memory.

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by phire on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:24PM (#36330295)
I'm not sure where you are getting your 1/3 numbers from as the M2 in the iPad scores pretty close in benchmarks to the M2 in the 13" macbook pro. [1] vs [2].

It's not a family. It's the exact same physical chip. You can also check Apple's technical specs too. They are both listed as "8-core CPU with four performance cores and four efficiency cores".

The only real difference between the ipad, macbook air and 13" macbook pro is the cooling solution. The ipad is fanless and the macbook pro has a fan. If you had a longer-running benchmark, or a sustained workload you would see a larger difference, but not that large.

[1] https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1591299

[2] https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1594101

Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by jayd16 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @11:34AM (#36327515)
You probably _already have_ a computer to use with this first gen at least. The 2 hours of battery life is going to be a longer term issue.
Re:SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple by goosedragons on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:03PM (#36327968)
I don't think it will ever happen. Apple has essentially stated that the openness of macOS is not something they'd repeat. We are also on Gen 6 of the iPad Pro a device that could very easily replace a laptop both in specs and feature set that is continually hampered from doing so. And there was/is countless rumors that Xcode will finally land on iPad and the best we've gotten is locked down and limited Swift Playgrounds.