That said, a visual novel has little to no gameplay. "Watching it" is all there is to it (minor minigames may be present in some games in this genre, but barely and often not at all). So streaming a full video of its gameplay is as close as it gets to giving the game for free. This is almost like streaming a full episode of an animé to which you don't have the rights.

Again, I don't agree with arresting anyone for this, just providing context.

Some have minor decisions to make, some none at all.

I'm not a fan of the genre, but that's neither here nor there.

Japan calls them a variety of different things. Sometimes they're called "adventure games", like Monkey Island or Phoenix Wright, or "kinetic novel" or "sound novel". They don't actually use the term "visual novel" though. (complicating this a bit, it's common in Japanese game marketing to make up a new genre for every game series instead of just saying it's "an FPS" or whatever.)

> [...] it causes people to say things like "they're not a fan of the genre", which is a weird thing to say about the concept of books.

I'm not a fan of the genre because it tends to be terrible. Way more uncomfortable than reading a book (staring at a computer screen), the requirement to press "next" or choose between trivial dialogue choices is tiring, and the writing is uniformly terrible.

So in principle I wouldn't have anything against the genre, except in practice it's terrible.

There is a genre of videogames that is way better than visual novels and requires lots of reading, but also has real and often innovative gameplay: interactive fiction (the evolution of text adventures of old, Infocom et al).

Some of them like When they Cry or Planetarian have full-screen text - those are the ones Japan actually calls "novel games". Those are usually more worth reading.

Whoa, that's harsh. I suspect that has to do more with translation quality than the writing quality. Getting translation right is difficult, if not impossible. But people tend to underestimate that. Additionally, dialogue choices in visual novels are far from trivial. They often represent major turning points in the story.

Though visual novels aren't quite mainstream even in Japan, they were quite popular. If the writing was uniformly terrible, it wouldn't have sold as much.

It's ok that other people like them though, I'm not the Good Taste Police.

> Though visual novels aren't quite mainstream even in Japan, they were quite popular. If the writing was uniformly terrible, it wouldn't have sold as much.

I'm sure you can find the flaw in "lots of people like this therefore it cannot be uniformly terrible". There are plenty of examples of this phenomenon.

In Spanish we have a saying: "eat poop, millions of flies cannot be wrong!".

> I'm not a fan of the genre, but that's neither here nor there

...and some are highly branchy, the Western equivalent being CYOA.

Kagetsu Tohya: http://www.nowere.net/a/src/1347481654955.jpg

Clannad: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Morlok8k/Clannad_VN_Flowch...

Those are all DAGs, but I suspect there are some with actual loops too.

Well, the problem in this case is that the answer isn't "lots of them" but "very few of them". And those that have options, based on reviews I've seen, are mostly cosmetic, the story is "on rails".

Being "on rails" defines the genre, I'd say. That, and terrible writing.

I think perhaps you shouldn't speak with such authority on the medium. Many have terrible writing, many have excellent writing. It depends on the author(s) and also to an extent on the localization team if it's being read in English or another language.

What "authority"? I'm giving my opinion; this started with the comment "I'm not a fan of the genre". I don't claim to be an authority.

All of the visual novels I've played were terrible and their plots would have been rightfully mocked had they been books. They also had little to no branching and lacked any meaningful decisions. Note I played many that were highly regarded in websites such as Home of the Underdogs, whose owner was a fan of the genre.

That's just my experience (based on playing games since the Commodore 64). I base my opinions on my experience. I don't push them on you. It entitles me to say I'm no fan of the genre -- no more, no less.

Sorry if this upsets you.

I wonder why a struck such a nerve for multiple users here on HN just because I said I wasn't a fan of a genre. I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition!

Typically a full playthrough will try to get all endings, but won't get all of the subchoices that just affect flavour. https://vndb.org/v11/lengthvotes

From the article, though: >In a statement following his arrest, CODA, Japan’s Content Overseas Distribution Promotion Organization, asserted that, “in principle,” any use of gameplay videos requires permission from the rights holder.

Granted the article linked doesn't explain anything: The Japanese government, specifically the courts and law enforcement, are simply exercising demands made by Kadokawa concerning copyright infringement.

https://www.inverse.com/input/culture/report-japan-criminali...

The way things are, my tax dollars are being used to protect profits of companies that often themselves pay no tax.

That's about the same as US federal prosecutors, but it mainly means they don't even bother prosecuting unless they think it's a sure thing.

That said, the 99% conviction rate is a bit misleading in that the prosecution rate is pretty low (as low as 10%?). Seems as the prosecutors are picking and choosing slam dunk cases than sending cases through the courts to avoid not guilty verdicts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Jap...

So yes, it's piracy, but it also isn't a perfect reproduction.

One might think that the fact that choices are flattened into a purely linear story would ruin the experience, but most choices are so vestigial that removing them is an improvement in my book.

I liked the first anime series, but (for me) the visual novel was incredibly tedious and boring. Did a refund of it on Steam about after 10-15 mins (from rough memory).

Theres no way I'd be able to put up with it for the whole duration.

Maybe I'll get around to trying one of the others you mentioned in a different comment. :)

And then there are masterpiece VNs absolutely chock full of choices and an extremely complex story graph, like Subarashiki Hibi or Fate Stay/Night.

(And, in my opinion, it's one of the worst things ever written.)

There are many equally valid "true" endings, not counting all the side endings. Sounds like it wasn't your cup of tea, that's fine. No VN is universally loved.

Also bonus link to one of my favorite tracks in the game: https://youtu.be/dQ5g1Va7CjI

Most VNs are structured as routes. There are a handful of independent stories. The reader not choose how the story will unfold, but rather chooses one of several linear stories to follow. I would classify that as a fundamentally linear story. The fact that the route is chosen by a choice in the middle is not really different from choosing the route from a menu at the start.

SubaHibi is even more linear than that, because the playing order of the routes is enforced. There is one "True" ending, which is required to be completed last and is the only one which resolves all the mysteries.

(I say the True ending resolves all the mysteries, but the mysteries were resolved to my satisfaction by the end of It's my Own Invention. That wasn't by design, though.)

Anyway we aren't going to agree here. I am interested in two things: what VNs you do like... and what VNs you would consider non-linear. The discussion can't really continue without a point of comparison.