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Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by mattgibson on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:42AM (#35886488)
TBF I don't think this is bad. The "cheating" involved seems a closer match to the actual real world conditions of the doing the job than the artificial "no internet allowed" assessment. If the candidates can get stuff done but need the internet as a reference, that's still getting stuff done. Not surprising that they are now getting promoted given they can not only get stuff done, but were resourceful enough to find a method to "cheat" and also pull it off successfully whilst being monitored.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by nevermindiguess on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:52AM (#35886591)
The goal of interviews and assignments is not to achieve an outcome but to assess someone’s abilities. Henceforth, cheating cannot be justified.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by fauxpause_ on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:58AM (#35886675)
If the assessment has no relationship to the job requirements then the test assessment cannot be justified either
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by John23832 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:10AM (#35886827)
As much as I hate the current interview process, this isn't true.

The justification foe the assessment is that the assessment is the defined set of hoops that the company who you are trying to get paid by has assigned.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by iainmerrick on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:31AM (#35887089)
Isn't that a bit circular? "This is the assignment because the assignment is this"?
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by JohnFen on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:11AM (#35887635)
That might be true, but is a different issue. It's certainly doesn't justify dishonesty.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by aidenn0 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:40AM (#35888975)
That's a silly argument. There are many jobs at which being smart is an advantage. IQ tests correlate fairly well with being smart. Giving an IQ test could then give you a group of people that are more likely to be smart than the initial interviewing population. Assuming the job is not "taking IQ tests" is the assessment unjustified?
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by fauxpause_ on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:13PM (#35889477)
Seems irrelevant if the people getting the job by cheating are considered high performers getting promotions
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by aidenn0 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:04PM (#35890186)
I think you took too much from implication. TFA states that they are getting promotions. Everything else is assumptions:

1. They are considered high performers (maybe promotions are on a schedule?)

2. They are actually high performers (some people can bullshit their way through a job for years).

3. They are outperforming a hypothetical person who didn't cheat on the test and would have been hired instead of them with an honest assessment.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by fauxpause_ on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:05PM (#35896848)
If an org can’t tell who is good and worthy of promotion when they’re working for them every day, they have no chance of doing so in an interview
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by tourmalinetaco on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:03AM (#35886737)
When presented with a problem she not only found a solution, but shared that solution with her peers. And has been promoted at her jobsite. As far as I can see, the interview properly assessed her abilities and found her qualified for the job.

In short, the interview process worked as intended.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by HDThoreaun on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:11AM (#35887636)
> The goal of interviews and assignments is not to achieve an outcome but to assess someone’s abilities.

Maybe to the interviewer. But for the applicant the goal is to achieve an outcome.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by 11101010001100 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:20AM (#35887768)
Why not just literally take the job?
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by surgical_fire on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:28AM (#35888801)
As an interviewer, I don't care if the candidates cheat.

I can assess his abilities either way.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by thih9 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:53AM (#35886607)
Get stuff done but not exactly meet all of the requirements.

So maybe features will get implemented but rules and laws not necessarily respected.

And perhaps that’s useful for some companies.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by wahnfrieden on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:55AM (#35886624)
“No internet during dev” is not a business requirement, it’s hazing

When I used to run interviews (no longer working) I’d learn the most from seeing how candidates resourcefully used google, skimmed results, found relevant info. That was immediately revealing.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by hgsgm on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:27AM (#35887039)
"Interview should be a real world test of my abilities."

"OK, take two weeks and create a feature."

"No, not like that."

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by wahnfrieden on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:31AM (#35887088)
Who said that (not me)
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by ambicapter on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:38AM (#35888046)
Might not be you, but I've seen tons of people on this board bemoan take-home interview tests.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by falcolas on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:04AM (#35888417)
Usually people are only annoyed if they're not paid for their (excessive for an interview) time.

Two weeks worth of contractor rates for a finished feature as an interview? Sign me up!

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by thih9 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:01AM (#35888377)
I think it’s a popular approach to see the hiring process as hazing, at least in some companies. I.e. to throw random hurdles, later check who’s doing best and hire them.

I saw companies state that openly. E.g. saying: we’re all competent programmers, none of us like leetcode and we don’t use that in our actual job, but we need a way to filter candidates and this seems the best practical solution.

Again, perhaps desperate people and/or hustlers make for a good workforce, especially in some companies.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by pydry on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:53AM (#35886601)
Technically, it would be better if everybody had internet access.

BUT, it means that Amazon creating a selection pressure for people who cheat. Long term this will be corrosive to the organizational fiber of the corporation as idiotic unrealistic leetcode questions are to the technical fiber.

Amazon has become way buggier for me over the last few years and so has Google. I think this is intimately connected to their organizational dysfunctions.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by wahnfrieden on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:57AM (#35886656)
I wouldn’t blame the devs for their quality issues. Try ownership.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by brookst on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:03AM (#35886731)
Finger pointing isn’t a great signal.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by wahnfrieden on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:23AM (#35886987)
Quality isn’t a skill issue. It’s prioritization. Ownership decides how devs spend their time.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by JohnFen on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:12AM (#35887661)
I get your point, but skill also plays into quality.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by solarmist on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:14PM (#35889488)
Skill plays into ownership too. It plays into everything. What is your point?
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by FooBarBizBazz on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:18AM (#35886927)
> Amazon has become way buggier for me over the last few years and so has Google. I think this is intimately connected to their organizational dysfunctions.

People are just riding these organizations down as they crash, starting at the very top with the CEOs. The same feeling extends to the countries and societies where these things operate. Vultures upon a corpse.

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by JohnFen on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:09AM (#35887609)
A person who cheats is a person who cannot be trusted. Trustworthiness is one of the things employers are looking for.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by falcolas on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:02AM (#35888389)
> Trustworthiness is one of the things employers are looking for.

And yet rarely reciprocated beyond what's explicitly required by law.

</ Tangent >

Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by doctorh on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:11AM (#35888528)
If you're willing to go to such lengths in order to be deceptive, it reflects very badly on your moral character. I wouldn't want to work with people like that and we should not reward that kind of behavior.
Re:My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted by PartiallyTyped on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:14PM (#35890329)
I am not particularly fond of this kind of moral flexibility. It's lying and the person found ways to justify themselves. This isn't the kind of person I can trust to be honest with me, they don't seem reliable either. Thanks, but no thanks.