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Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by capableweb on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:08AM (#35801344)
> They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core.

Ah yes, the ecosystems where features such as hot reloading would only be in paid offers unless the ecosystem didn't start to shout at them when their plans changed from "of course it's free" to "sorry, paid customers only".

> But you need to remember your org charts; the Edge and Windows 11 decision-makers are not the same people with the same incentives.

I couldn't care less about their org charts. That's just a way for employees to feel better about what their colleagues are doing, "but that's not what I do at the company, I'm doing great stuff".

Just like Googlers trying to convince themselves they're doing great stuff for the world because they happen to hack on FOSS stuff while their colleagues spend most of their days optimizing ads and siphoning as much data as they can from their users.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by tester756 on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:39AM (#35801671)
You really picked poor thing to try to bash on since .NET ecosystem is one of the most sanest out of all ecosystems

Give me something as sane as .NET ecosystem for C and C++ and I would be willing to pay for that

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by capableweb on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:48AM (#35802350)
I didn't pick .NET, parent did. And regardless if the ecosystem is nice to work in or not, Microsoft tries their true and tested strategy of EEE with that ecosystem as well.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by mananaysiempre on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:51AM (#35802401)
The example is not .NET in general, but that specific event when Microsoft reneged on open development tooling[1]. For some people, that was the moment they stopped trusting "new Microsoft" to keep their word (though for me, it was when the Python language server was replaced with a DRM-locked, LSP-noncompliant one[2] a bit before that; unlike with .NET hot reload, they didn't backtrack there). I can think the company makes great open .NET tools and at the same time not trust them to close it down on a whim.

Does anyone know where the open xlang implementation of MIDL went[3], by the way? (Unlike the original 1990s MIDL, you can't reimplement this one from the language grammar in the docs, because there is no language grammar in the docs.)

[1] https://dusted.codes/can-we-trust-microsoft-with-open-source and links there

[2] https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release/issues/4

[3] https://github.com/microsoft/xlang/pull/529

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by madeofpalk on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:18PM (#35805788)
> since .NET ecosystem is one of the most sanest out of all ecosystems

Is it? This is the same ecosystem that has .Net, .Net Core, .Net Standard, and .Net Framework as all different (and overlapping? who knows) products?

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by CuriousSkeptic on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @04:24PM (#35807276)
Its only .Net now.

The Core and Standard things was just there the aid the transition from Framework, which is now complete, any remains will soon be phased out entirely.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by gtirloni on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:33AM (#35801602)
We often look at companies as a single monolith but that isn't conductive to productive discussions.

OP is giving a different perspective, a more detailed and granular one.

One interest counterpoint would be that the problematic behavior is encouraged by the CEO, then the different units wouldn't matter much (well, unless they have a tendency to go rogue). Anyway, all idle speculation on my part but I welcome the perspective.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by capableweb on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:50AM (#35802374)
Maybe if they stopped trying to become monoliths, people would stop considering them as monoliths?

What purpose could buying GitHub serve if they don't want GitHub to be a part of Microsoft? They are obviously trying to do everything, via a centralized organization which is Microsoft, so by all measures, they are or want to become, a monolith.

Regardless of what other people in the organization is doing, the organization as a whole is represented by everyone working their, no matter if they work on ads, cloud, FOSS or office products. You cannot work in one area and somehow ignore the work of your colleagues,

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by kbenson on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @12:40PM (#35804498)
That's sort of like condemning all of the U.S. because one state does something you don't agree with. In a large organization different departments may do different things and have different incentives, and until they overstep too much may have quite a bit of autonomy.

Considering all actions taken as part of some overarching plan is probably assuming too much. Some actions probably are towards some larger strategy, but myriad other ones are likely sub-level decisions. Always looking at large corporations such as Microsoft as one entity with a cohesive goal is easy, but it's also simplistic, which doesn't always yield a useful and productive discussion.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by JohnFen on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:56PM (#35808321)
> That's sort of like condemning all of the U.S. because one state does something you don't agree with.

It's more like condemning all of the US because it has implemented a national policy that only one state really wanted.

It doesn't matter that only one state wanted it. It's still national policy and thus fair game to criticize the entire nation for.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by kbenson on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:01PM (#35809528)
Is it a company wide policy that Microsoft apps open links in edge, or a Teams and Edge thing?

Do office apps open links in edge? Does VS code?

If they do, then I agree with you. If they don't, then I don't, for what should be obvious reasons.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by JohnFen on Thursday May 04, 2023 @11:31AM (#35817007)
If a company has implemented it in a product that is publicly released, it's a company policy even if only the dev team was responsible for it.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by kbenson on Thursday May 04, 2023 @05:05PM (#35822075)
Eh, no. That's a reach. A company policy would be something that the whole company is expected to follow. If only the teams that coordinated on it follow it, that's not a policy in any way, it's just a choice that a portion of the company made, it could be something that the company doesn't care about one way or another or it could be something that wasn't addressed prior to release (if you think every decision a team makes gets complete review and is totally understood, I think you're wrong).
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by BizarroLand on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @12:43PM (#35804532)
Even a monolith is made up of many atoms all sticking together.

Just because your particular outcropping isn't coated in digital blood doesn't mean you're not part of the problem.

If a company sent out two crews of people and one crew gave out flowers to strangers and the other crew punched little old lady's faces in, would you still crow about how you're only handing out flowers?

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by Eisenstein on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @01:21PM (#35805061)
A friendly nitpick: the word 'conductive' is a physics term. The term which means "tending to promote or assist" is 'conducive' with no 't', pronounced 'cundoosiv'.

> Something conducive "leads to" a desirable result. A cozy living room may be conducive to relaxed conversation, just as a boardroom may be conducive to more intense discussions. Particular tax policies are often conducive to savings and investment, whereas others are conducive to consumer spending. Notice that conducive is almost always followed by to.

* https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conducive

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by Aeolun on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:09PM (#35805678)
What the hell? They’re separate words?

How did I go at least half my life without knowing this.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by trzy on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:27PM (#35805902)
Wait till you learn that "deprecated" and "depreciated" are different words, too.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by JohnFen on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:54PM (#35808293)
But "flammable" and "inflammable" are the same. English is fun!!
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by Aeolun on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @10:18PM (#35810502)
Unfortunately I knew this one already. It’s be too much to hope I could have my mind broken twice in a day ;)
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by dizhn on Sunday May 07, 2023 @09:56AM (#35851558)
They are close enough.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by gtirloni on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:42PM (#35806087)
Thank you. English is not my first language so I appreciate the correction. TIL.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by GauntletWizard on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:22PM (#35807973)
Pedantry around the meaning of words with common stems is against the code of conduct. In other words, do Conduits not conduct water?