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Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by jiggywiggy on Sunday April 30, 2023 @02:03PM (#35764995)
What makes it worse is, whistleblowers are trouble makers often. They are difficult people, at best like Snowden, they lay low. It makes it easier to dismiss them. Why? Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character. To whistleblow against a very powerful organisation, like the NSA, you have to be a pain in the ass. I don't mean that in a bad way. Normal sociable people just don't do that.

So when a whistleblower breaks out, and they get chastised there almost is never support from within the organization for them.

[dead]
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by GalenErso on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:04PM (#35765585)
I disagree with the idea that we are run by psychopaths.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by nostrademons on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:17PM (#35765724)
You must be one of those agreeable people.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by GalenErso on Sunday April 30, 2023 @04:04PM (#35766124)
Yes.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by ldhough on Sunday April 30, 2023 @10:24PM (#35768487)
Bit of an ironic stance for someone with the name Galen Erso to take ;)
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:06PM (#35765614)
Don't know where you live, but check what it takes to end up nominated as a candidate in one of the top parties in your country. It's either the wealthy and well connected elites or the unscrupulous psychos that end up lying, cheating and backstabbing their way to the top.

The sane, honest people either get filtered out or end up converted by the toxic corrupt system. It's similar in other government or private organizations where power is at stake.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by hourago on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:11PM (#35765665)
> whistleblowers are trouble makers often ... Why? Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character.

Most "troublemakers", as you call them, that I have known are people deeply moral and worried about their peers and society. I have seen two types, thou. Some have such a strong moral compass that will fight for what is right even knowing that it will have consequences. And the naive ones that think that, as they are morally right, the structures of power will recognize their sins and correct the situation. None of them were anti-social.

But that is just my personal experience.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by nullc on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:32PM (#35765855)
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by jiggywiggy on Sunday April 30, 2023 @07:53PM (#35767649)
At times it's justified to be unreasonable
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by lazide on Sunday April 30, 2023 @08:58PM (#35768010)
It’s rarely the comfortable choice however.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by southernplaces7 on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:33PM (#35765864)
>Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character. To whistleblow against a very powerful organisation, like the NSA, you have to be a pain in the ass. I don't mean that in a bad way. Normal sociable people just don't do that.

You're making way too simplistic a generalization here. Some sociable people can be sociable and friendly with a group until that group changes and they decide that it no longer fits their morality. They can still be contrarians, and then make waves anyhow. You absolutely don't have to be an introverted, hard nosed loner to end up being a whistleblower or contrarian troublemaker. This sounds a bit more like wishful fantasy for people who are socially inept trying to paint it as more noble.

If anything, a sociable, open person is more likely to have the kind of self assured personality that makes them decide it's not a problem to disagree among their peer group whenever it becomes necessary. Read more history, it's full of troublemakers who were also sociable.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by andirk on Sunday April 30, 2023 @08:35PM (#35767878)
A very social person is probably less likely to speak out against their peers because they have become friends with them and their power somewhat lies in those people liking them.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by jiggywiggy on Monday May 01, 2023 @06:52AM (#35771117)
I also think it's part of their character to be agreeable, not just that they are friends.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by andirk on Monday May 01, 2023 @11:31PM (#35783006)
Good mention. Recently I was saying a gal I know's friends are "all yes men" when they discuss personal issues w/ each other. I was suggested a better term is that they are "supportive". Same thing, but yeah, they just agree with the person. Critical thinking takes a back seat to making the other person feel validated.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by watwut on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:44PM (#35765960)
Are they really? And frankly, I have seen enough amoral contrarians, contrarians just for the sake of having fun to understand why they are dismissed.

And actual real world lite "whistle-blower" I have Deen was not like that.

[dead]
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by dang on Monday May 01, 2023 @03:13PM (#35777689)
Could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN in the intended spirit?

You broke the rules pretty badly here, and also in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35766457. We're trying to avoid flamewars to the extent possible. You can make your substantive points without doing that.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by ClumsyPilot on Sunday April 30, 2023 @08:57PM (#35768001)
> Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character. To whistleblow against a very powerful organisation... you have to be a pain in the ass.

I am confused - people who are good and social have no principles and value? They have no backbone to stand up for them?

This is like the worst definition of social - like amoral sociopaths desperate to fit in.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by lazide on Monday May 01, 2023 @04:10PM (#35778460)
If Nazi Germany produced anything of value at all, one can hope it was clear evidence that a large portion of the population does indeed meet that definition. Certainly enough to run a state, prosecute a world war, and run a massive economy rivaling other world powers.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by sammalloy on Sunday April 30, 2023 @11:28PM (#35768796)
> Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character

That’s an interesting observation, and in my experience working in small businesses and large enterprise organizations, it’s entirely and totally wrong. Some of the worst people I’ve ever known in the workplace kiss up to the boss and to people in power while running the company into the ground. These are not good people. It’s actually a kind of evil in a way, as they present a likable "go along to get along" persona and facade while doing a terrible job. I would much rather be surrounded by humble yet candid truth tellers, who tell it like it is with empathy and compassion and care.

Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by __MatrixMan__ on Sunday April 30, 2023 @11:44PM (#35768873)
I agree. I think GP meant "good" like you'd use it to describe a dog. obedient.
Re:Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer ... by diego_sandoval on Monday May 01, 2023 @12:26AM (#35769086)
I think parent comment meant good with the group as in "follows the social rules without questioning them and does what is expected of them", not as in morally good.