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Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by kranke155 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:50AM (#35727247)
Europe doesn’t have free speech because -
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by bwesz on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:04AM (#35727447)
October, 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by pwgentleman on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:19AM (#35727656)
That's maybe part of a more general "perceived inability of some Muslims to handle polemics against their religion with grace" (from the article). Searching for "bobblehead Jesus" vs "bobblehead Mohammed" on Amazon is a good example of that.

The more disturbing issue is the ECHR's ruling.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by kranke155 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:05AM (#35727459)
Another account created 3 hours ago. Very interesting
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by f6v on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:13AM (#35727562)
It’s like telling someone “your opinion doesn’t matter cause you’re ugly/old/young”.

A post is either relevant or not, regardless of when account was created.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by kranke155 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:09AM (#35728311)
On this thread there are multiple accounts created in the last few hours
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by weissbier on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:23AM (#35728566)
I don't see the relevance of the account age as long as the person is engaging in a healthy discussion.

However, I have noticed that in other comment sections, such as those on „Der Spiegel“, some people attempt to dismiss the opinions of users with recently created accounts as well.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by concordDance on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:05AM (#35727472)
Well anti-hate speech legislation is pretty common in Europe while the USA doesn't have such a thing.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by xeonmc on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:54AM (#35727296)
I am inexplicably reminded of the following great quote:

> As an European it was always hard for me to understand American culture. What was fascinating for me is that they like bragging about their freedom which was weird for me, because I didn't think that I have any less freedom than them. I always thought 'What is the difference'. However after this game I finally understand it. NA is just so fucking free.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:57AM (#35727332)
What game? Also, NA meaning North America? Why would Mexico and Canada be lumped into it, they don't have the same constitutional protections that USA gets.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by xeonmc on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:19AM (#35727641)
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by jai_ on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:09AM (#35727517)
League of Legends originally.

It's a popular copypasta that gets used in esports discussions whenever an EU team beats an NA team harshly.

"NA" as term in esports just refers to teams primarily based in the US or Canada.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by SturgeonsLaw on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:58AM (#35727340)
What's the game that quote refers to?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by tempay on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:12AM (#35727552)
It's a copypasta, from wikipedia:

> A copypasta is a block of text that is copied and pasted across the Internet by individuals through online forums and social networking websites. Copypastas are said to be similar to spam as they are often used to annoy other users and disrupt online discourse.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by jai_ on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:28AM (#35727795)
League of Legends
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by astura on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:16AM (#35727609)
I was in Scotland (pre-Brexit) watching a UK tv show about the KKK in America. When they were distributing pamphlets the narrator explains that what they were doing was legal in America because of the US Constitution guarantees free speech whereas in the UK inciting racial hate is a crime.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:58AM (#35727346)
In most EU countries, you can’t publicly insult the country politicians.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:00AM (#35727388)
That's absolutely not true, definitely not in the criminal sense. Politicians are always allowed to bring a civil suit against you over the things you've said, but the same is true in US.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:07AM (#35727489)
It is criminal.

> She stands accused of "insulting the president of the republic" and will stand trial on June 20 in Saint Omer, the prosecutor said.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:12AM (#35727554)
Who is "she"? What republic? Does one republic(whichever one that is) constitute the "most" of EU now?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by kranke155 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:12AM (#35727550)
Where
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by simon_o on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:01AM (#35727405)
Citation needed.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:05AM (#35727462)
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by peoplefromibiza on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:18AM (#35727634)
that's the right of every people here in EU. If you offend me (online or offline) I can sue you and you could face trial.

It's called defamation.

Nothing to see here.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by vr46 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:42AM (#35727998)
Everything you wrote is wrong.

"Offending" someone is meaningless. Anyone can claim they were offended by anything, but that doesn't automatically make the thing illegal or injurious.

Insults != defamation

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by euresident on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:57AM (#35727329)
Because you can go to prison for saying things.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @08:59AM (#35727369)
You can in US as well, even the 1st amendment only protects you so far. We just disagree with where that line lies.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:04AM (#35727446)
That’s not true. You can say f* Trump or f* Biden all you want online or outside. That’s not the case in France for example.

[Edit] Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:11AM (#35727542)
How is that not true? Yes you can say fuck trump or fuck biden(why are you self censoring yourself on the internet btw), but you can't say "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" to a police officer - you will be arrested and put in prison even if you were "just saying things". Your freedom of speech isn't absolute. For other examples - several states made it illegal for journalists to report on violations on farms, to protect their own industries.

>>That’s not the case in France for example.

I'm pretty sure you can say fuck trump or fuck biden in France and nothing would happen to you, in public or otherwise.

you picked a poor example though, insulting the French head of state hasn't been a crime for a decade now:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:16AM (#35727612)
Well go on and insult an EU country leader here. :)
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:21AM (#35727689)
Are you.....under the impression that French laws apply in all of EU or something?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by hartator on Friday April 28, 2023 @09:20AM (#35740968)
It’s actually how the EU mostly work. Country members do still most of law and merge upstream. GDPR for example originated from the CNIL which is French. And contain things that restrict freedom of speech at an EU level. [1]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-alphabet-privacy-idCNL5N2...

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by gambiting on Friday April 28, 2023 @01:46PM (#35744661)
No it isn't. Not in the slightest sense, I have no idea where you're getting your info from, that's literally not how the EU lawmaking works.
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by concordDance on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:08AM (#35727500)
That's news to me. Got a citation or example?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by peoplefromibiza on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:09AM (#35727516)
not true since long time ago

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...

also: most EU countries have laws that protect public speech and especially people's representatives from being prosecuted for expressing their opinions.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by kranke155 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:03AM (#35727439)
Conveniently, this account was literally just registered to make this comment.

I’m increasingly convinced that LLMs are being used to spread propaganda

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by rvense on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:03AM (#35727443)
Which things?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by poszlem on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:09AM (#35727521)
In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti....

You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings".

In the UK people get fined for offensive tweets, including saying things like "men are not women".

In France people are facing trials for insulting Macron: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by peoplefromibiza on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:20AM (#35727665)
In US you can go to jail for being black or not following police officers orders or responding to them in a way they do not like, or talking to them, or taking pictures of them.

And they can shoot you.

Just like any authoritarian police state.

EDIT: freedom of speech is not related only to offending the president or saying good things about Hitler, it also mean I can talk and eventually argue with a police officer in EU without worrying that they will arrest me or shoot me. It means I can take a picture of a firemen's truck without the camera being seized by the police (it happened to me in Florida) and no way of talking to them that there's no need to abuse of their power, you can actually delete photos from cameras.

etc etc

authoritarianism and control works best when it's not in the law, but in the people habits.

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by euresident on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:26AM (#35727761)
Great, but we are talking about Europe, can't you read?
Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by poszlem on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:15AM (#35727587)
To add to this comment which is unfairly downvoted, some example of laws in Europe that I collected over the years:

France's "hate speech" laws, which prohibit speech that is deemed to be insulting, threatening, or discriminatory on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or sexual orientation.

Germany's NetzDG law, which requires social media platforms to remove content that is deemed to be hate speech or fake news within 24 hours of being notified.

The United Kingdom's Official Secrets Act, which makes it a criminal offense to disclose certain types of information deemed to be sensitive to national security.

Spain's "gag law," which restricts protests and demonstrations, and imposes fines for offenses such as insulting police officers.

Denmark's blasphemy law, which prohibits public speech or acts that are deemed to be blasphemous or offensive to religious beliefs.

Hungary's law against promoting migration, which criminalizes the publication or broadcast of materials that are deemed to promote illegal migration.

Belgium's Holocaust denial law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly deny, minimize, or justify the Holocaust.

Sweden's "hets mot folkgrupp" law, which prohibits speech that is deemed to be hate speech or incitement to violence against certain groups of people, such as ethnic minorities or LGBT individuals.

Italy's "Lodo Alfano" law, which made it a criminal offense to publish transcripts of intercepted conversations, even if they exposed wrongdoing by public officials.

Greece's "insulting the state" law, which makes it a criminal offense to insult the Greek flag, national anthem, or state symbols.

Austria's law against defamation of religions, which makes it a criminal offense to insult or denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

Finland's law against ethnic agitation, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of ethnicity or national origin.

Ireland's blasphemy law, which makes it a criminal offense to publish or utter blasphemous content.

Poland's "Holocaust law," which criminalizes the attribution of Nazi crimes to the Polish state or people.

Portugal's "apology for terrorism" law, which makes it a criminal offense to justify, glorify, or condone terrorism.

Romania's law against insult and defamation, which imposes fines or imprisonment for speech that is deemed to insult, defame, or threaten individuals or groups.

Slovakia's law against extremism, which prohibits the distribution of materials that promote extremist ideologies or activities.

Switzerland's anti-racism law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, or religion.

The Netherlands' law against discrimination, which prohibits speech or acts that are deemed to discriminate against individuals or groups on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or other characteristics.

Norway's law against hate speech, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti.... You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings".

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by peoplefromibiza on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:24AM (#35727725)
yes in the US you can wave Nazi flags, but if a police officer stops you for allegedly speeding and you remove your hands from the wheel or look them in the eyes, they can and will shoot you.

They shoot to kill over a thousand times a year.

If any of those EU countries had such stats, they would shutdown the police entirely for abuse of violence.

Fortunately, we are civilized and it never happened.

Anyway you are wrong about the Lodo Alfano in Italy, which I know very well being Italian. The law has been active for a few months before being declared unconstitutional.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodo_Alfano

I wonder how wrong you are for every other country

Re:Europe Needs Digital Public Spaces That Are Independently... by poszlem on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:48AM (#35728065)
Updated the data with sources. Marked Lodo Alfano as repealed. The rest of your comment is off-topic.