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Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by onion2k on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:30AM (#35651125)
BMW claim that a diesel 3 series will get 61mpg. Volkswagen reckon a Golf 2.0 TDI will do 68mpg. Electric is still significantly better, but you didn't need pick a terrible diesel car as an example.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by maccard on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:38AM (#35651184)
Even more confusingly, what the US calls a gallon isn't the same as what other countries call the gallon. It's about a 20% difference.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by VulgarExigency on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:45AM (#35651234)
Not that confusing, only the US measures fuel in gallons, isn't it? Everyone else just uses liters.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by Aromasin on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:55AM (#35651292)
The UK also does for some God awful reason (especially infuriating considering it's sold by the litre at the petrol station).

In the United States and some other countries, a gallon is equal to 128 fluid ounces or 3.785 liters. Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom and some Commonwealth countries, a gallon is equal to 160 fluid ounces or 4.546 liters.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by masklinn on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:53AM (#35651655)
In fairness the fluid ounces are also different, an Imperial (english) fluid ounce is 28.41306mL, while a US Customary fl oz is 29.5735mL. So the Imperial floz is 96% the american’s, not enough to acount for having 25% more of them in a gallon, but it does lead to the Imperial gallon only being 20% larger than the customary gallon.

But wait there’s more! The US also has the “food labelling” fluid ounce which is not the customary one, instead it’s exactly 30mL.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by hutzlibu on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:22AM (#35651817)
And yet we claim to live in a science based society.

I mean, there are a million things, that do not need universal standards, but standards are imposed anyway.

But where one standard would be really helpful, like scientific values, we have many. And some people would rather go to prison, than adopt. (I think that happened in the UK, after they force switched to metric)

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by Retric on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:43AM (#35651937)
Keep digging and all the imperial standards are just an arbitrary conversion from metric at this point.

1 ft = exactly 30.48 cm; One pound is exactly 0.45359237 kilograms as in 0.453592370000000000… kilograms.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by mharig on Friday April 21, 2023 @10:27AM (#35654268)
Not only they might go to prison, they may risk values and lives of others, too:

https://usma.org/unit-mixups

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by hutzlibu on Friday April 21, 2023 @01:00PM (#35656725)
Well in a general sense, yes, but the particular case I remember was a (fish?) seller at a local market, so nothing life endangering.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by frankfrankfrank on Friday April 21, 2023 @07:32AM (#35652272)
Yes, diversity must be stamped out for out corporate masters. All of humanity must be uniform and there can be no divergence.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by madeofpalk on Friday April 21, 2023 @10:03AM (#35653929)
The UK also uses pints for dairy milk, but litres for plant-based milks. UK must be completely disregarded if you're looking to make sense about what units to use.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by maccard on Friday April 21, 2023 @02:16PM (#35657829)
They're sold in pints but labelled in litres. My supermarket sells .568, 1.13 and 2.26L containers.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by grosun on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:53AM (#35651286)
The UK may be the most confusing; fuel is sold in litres, but fuel efficiency is expressed in MPG, and furthermore the gallons aren't the same as US gallons. I guess at least the miles are the same!
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by spacebanana7 on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:09AM (#35651367)
I suspect the British fuel system is designed to hide the cost per mile of driving, at least tacitly. At present it's difficult to work out without some external tool.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by masklinn on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:59AM (#35651683)
An other possibility is that the brits like having wonky things, just look at the pre-decimalisation monetary system, or the counties (https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk).
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by xnorswap on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:12AM (#35651759)
We only switched to selling by the litre in the early 90s (presumably for the sake of EU alignment), it was sold in Gallons until then. Expressing efficiency in MPG is just something that had "stuck" by then.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by lil_cain on Friday April 21, 2023 @07:19AM (#35652172)
UK was legally obliged to by the EU. See the "metric martyrs" for how weirdly controversial this all was.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by onion2k on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:51AM (#35652947)
Not quite. The EU directive said that governments should if they wanted pass a law to say metric units should be displayed. The UK government chose to ratify that law, but with the caveat that imperial units could be displayed as well if shops wanted to display them (and most did).

At no point was it ever illegal do display the old units. There were no martyrs; there were only idiots.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by OJFord on Friday April 21, 2023 @07:15AM (#35652142)
It's more like once it's established it's hard to change - if you started listing 'miles per litre' that would be like it was 'designed to hide the cost of driving', because I would have no idea how that compared.

(Quite normally for my age in the UK I think, I'm familiar with both metric & Imperial measurements, but generally fairly bad at converting. Except I know 568ml = 1 (UK! Not US!) pint - for which I can thank my alma mater Imperial and its student bars: Metric, and FiveSixEight. I could probably guess effectively at lbs and kg from butter/flour. Of course I know 2.54cm = 1". A yard is 'a bit' less than 1m. It's the bigger ones that seem more obscure/are harder to work out from familiarity I suppose.)

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by nordsieck on Friday April 21, 2023 @10:52AM (#35654662)
> It's more like once it's established it's hard to change - if you started listing 'miles per litre' that would be like it was 'designed to hide the cost of driving', because I would have no idea how that compared.

1. I think with liters, people typically reverse the relationship so it's liters/100km. Which is a much more intuitive unit.

2. If you're buying gas in liters, I think it'd be a lot easier to switch over to using liters for efficiency. You may not be able to compare easily to other vehicles, but you'd be able to estimate your personal fuel more easily.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by rootusrootus on Friday April 21, 2023 @11:59AM (#35655744)
> a much more intuitive unit

I think it's the other way around. Distance per quantity of fuel is the intuitive measurement that humans understand and can relate directly to how much fuel they purchase. It could be argued that it is less intuitive when comparing two cars, however. Although better MPG is still strictly better, which is about the level of detail most non-nerds care about.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by masklinn on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:57AM (#35651669)
> I guess at least the miles are the same!

Only since the 1958 International Yard and Pound Agreement tho. Before then the US used what is now known as the Survey Mile, which is why the survey mile exists (and survived until this year).

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by frankfrankfrank on Friday April 21, 2023 @07:28AM (#35652239)
Ah yes, the endless march to turn humanity into a singular blob of consistent units of nature, under a banner of the opposite. “Diversity” people claim profusely, as all differences are eradicated, mashed together, and destroyed.

Ironically, we live in a world where all the diversity that used to exist and has been destroyed by these zealots for corporate oligarchs, could have easily been dealt with through computers. We could have had cross-referencing systems that automatically and seamlessly work with any unit of nature, but instead the authoritarian impulses have only gotten worse over there last 100 years and actual, real diversity among humans in every domain is critically endangered.

If someone needs a concrete example, the EU (and the template, the post Civil War US) is a good one. It’s authoritarian, illegitimste by any reasonable definition of democracy, is trying to eradicate and stamp out diversity in Europe, a place that used to have the highest density of human diversity for essentially all of human existence. Millennia of diversity is currently being eradicated in Europe (in America it has largely succeeded) and the EU and its authoritarian dictatorial bureaucratic machine is the primary culprit. While you and your smug and self/righteous indignation about the use of liters is a warrior in the eradication of diversity on the whole planet. As you said, “Everyone else just uses liters” … there will be no diversity once you are done.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tom_ on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:00AM (#35652462)
We already pretty much did it for measuring time, and very helpful it has proven too. So why not other dimensions as well?

There'll be plenty of diversity left, trust me.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by Maken on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:22AM (#35652648)
Clam down, we are just talking about how measure systems. And the previous ones existed not because of cultural differences, but because every king and tyrant wanted to decide which stick their vassals should use to measure the world.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by onion2k on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:49AM (#35652914)
Ah yes, the endless march to turn humanity into a singular blob of consistent units of nature, under a banner of the opposite.

The entire world uses metric units apart from America, Libya and Myanmar. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

What I absolutely love about this fact is that America is still using British Imperial units. After literally having a war over whether or not the US should be independent of British rule, you're still holding on to our measuring system despite the rest of the world moving on.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by saalweachter on Friday April 21, 2023 @10:52AM (#35654669)
They aren't British Imperial units. They're US customary units.

They were standardized separately, and vary slightly to considerably from the British Imperial counterparts.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tecleandor on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:49AM (#35651257)
The Cruze is way better than that anyway, you'd need to be in an excruciating traffic jam to get that low mileage.

Well, my 12 years old (gas) Honda Fit does +40MPG being very "pedal happy" and near 50 driving normally, and my dad's 20 years old (diesel) Citroen Xsara Picasso does around 60MPG

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by londons_explore on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:11AM (#35651373)
Due to dieselgate, there was a peak in diesel car efficiency around 2006. Post 2006 diesels get less fuel efficiency, because they had to tweak the engines to lower the combustion temperature to reduce NOX emissions. (which also reduces efficiency).
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by fnordfnordfnord on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:12AM (#35651381)
20 years ago was kind of a sweet spot for diesel automobile fuel efficiency. Emissions were terrible though. Then they tried to clean up the tail pipe emissions and lost most of the efficiency gains.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tecleandor on Friday April 21, 2023 @11:13AM (#35654991)
Yep, although they're becoming better again. Not that I'm a diesel apologist, I hate it, but I guess we're used to smaller and more efficient cars in Europe (even with the SUV craze)
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by msravi on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:15AM (#35651396)
This has the 2011 Honda Fit pegged at between 29-31 mpg.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform...

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tecleandor on Friday April 21, 2023 @10:58AM (#35654754)
The European one has a different engine, it's the 1.5i-VTEC, certified at 4.7l/100km in highway and 5.4 mixed.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by shakow on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:47AM (#35651609)
> Xsara Picasso does around 60MPG

3.9l/100km in a Xsara, really?

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tecleandor on Friday April 21, 2023 @11:03AM (#35654844)
Ouch. When calculating I think I did UK MPGs instead of US. It does less than 5l/100, and I think it's certified at 4.4.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by msravi on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:11AM (#35651374)
This has the 2022 BMW 3-series pegged at between 22-28 mpg for city driving. US gallons, since the site is Houston site, I suppose.

https://www.advantagebmwhouston.com/2022-bmw-3-series-fuel-e...

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by gambiting on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:55AM (#35652013)
All the models listed are petrol(gas) powered so of course they get much worse mpg.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by znpy on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:23AM (#35651444)
Volkswagen has already been caught cheating (on its emissions) —- not sure I would trust their claims without an independent third party checking on that.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by gambiting on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:35AM (#35651886)
You can just hop into any diesel Golf/Passat and you'll get 50+ mpg without even trying. No need for third parties.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by thiagocsf on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:25AM (#35652673)
Mileage != emissions
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by gambiting on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:29AM (#35652719)
Sure but the original post was about mileage, no?
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by teamonkey on Friday April 21, 2023 @06:36AM (#35651895)
As a VAG diesel owner, they don’t get close to the marketing figures. Knock 15-20% off for all practical driving.
Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by tom_ on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:03AM (#35652490)
Maybe this is for town driving?

My diesel 3 series (2.9 litre, late 90s design) would get 8.83 L/100 km (32 mpg UK, 26 mpg US) driving round town, stopping at traffic lights and averaging <20 mph and never getting past 3rd gear. This didn't require much care, just a question of not trying to accelerate too hard at low RPMs or doing a 0-60 run from every stop.

Engine technology will presumably have moved on in the past 25 years, and efficiency will have improved, but you'll still get crappy fuel economy for stopping and starting all the time.

Re:World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthroug... by jwr on Friday April 21, 2023 @12:41PM (#35656381)
I had a BMW series 3. 61mpg is 3.8l/100km and that's… dreamland. You can probably achieve that in ideal conditions, driving 50km/h on a highway.

Very few people check the facts, and the only reliable way to know yourself is to take notes at the pump: gas pumped vs km travelled. I did check for a while and the numbers were quite different :-)

On a related note, for the VW ID.4, the manufacturer states 17kWh/100km which is actually achievable (much to my surprise) in city driving when it isn't cold. My real numbers are closer to 21kWh/100km. This goes up really quickly if you exceed 130km/h.