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Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by userbinator on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:42PM (#35608581)
Windows is definitely adware now.

Microsoft saw how much the average user would install, and thought "we can do that too"; of course, by being "official", their own adware is much harder to remove.

Windows can show the weather in the bottom left of the task bar, which is nice

I've never wanted that feature nor found it appealing. I can just look outside if I want to know the weather where I am, or visit a site otherwise.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by sho_hn on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:46PM (#35608607)
> Windows is definitely adware now.

It's sad, isn't it? In many a Hacker News thread about the Year of the Linux Desktop, someone will inevitably deadpan how there's just no money to be made; there's no business model.

It seems to me that the same is true for Apple and Microsoft. There's "no" money in the desktop itself, only as a value-add, via platform effects or via dark pattern monetization like this.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by tcmart14 on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:47PM (#35609377)
To be honest, Windows really should just rebase on to Linux. They can make their programs work on linux. But the OS isn't the future for Microsoft when it comes to profits. Their future is software and tooling. I don't follow MS's financials, but I bet their growth with Azure and Linux is far outpacing Windows license keys. I believe they have already indicated that Ubuntu is far more popular than their own server OS. The current and future cash cow is Microsoft making money off developer tooling/infrastructure and their apps.

And honestly, Microsoft isn't doing too bad at tooling. Had you told me 3 years ago I would be developing .NET applications, mostly ASP.Core, on linux, I woulda said you were stoned. But here I am today, cranking out .NET code that runs servers on Linux. And the tooling is pretty good and is just getting better.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by delta_p_delta_x on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:34PM (#35609669)
> Windows really should just rebase on to Linux

No, it should not. The NT kernel architecture is drastically superior to the Linux monorepo.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by mshockwave on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @12:12AM (#35609879)
Mind to elaborate a little more?
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by userbinator on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @01:21AM (#35610257)
Drivers with a stable API that don't break with each new minor version.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by pjmlp on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:44AM (#35612674)
Drivers ABI, being micro-kernel based, even if everything is kind of bundled together, subsystems talk over in-kernel RPC (LPC), nowadays drivers and critical kernel subsystems are sandboxed on their micro-vms, hyper-v is a type 1 hypervisor (Windows runs on top of it when enabled, is just another guest), many kernel subsystems have long adopted C++ (hence VC++ /kernel since Vista, and Windows Implementation Library, a set of C++ templates for kernel, driver and userspace resource management), async IO since Windows NT early days, COM as OOP ABI (even if tooling is somehow clunky), subsystems just like mainframe OSes,....
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by emodendroket on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:16PM (#35609569)
Why on earth would they do this and piss away their huge BC advantage?
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by arcanemachiner on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:40PM (#35609701)
I'm assuming BC stands for backwards compatibility?
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by emodendroket on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:44PM (#35609729)
Yes.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by tcmart14 on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @03:44PM (#35632448)
Just open up to the WINE project. My understanding is, when you run a Windows 95 program on Windows 11, it essentially fires up an emulator anyways. WINE with the resources could very well offer the replacement at really no cost to Microsoft.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by RajT88 on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:51PM (#35609775)
> Their future is software and tooling. I don't follow MS's financials, but I bet their growth with Azure and Linux is far outpacing Windows license keys.

Azure outpaces everything else. Azure, under the covers, runs Hyper-V on Windows Server.

A massive number of VM's running on Azure are Linux, so investments in that area also pay cloud dividends.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by waboremo on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @12:23AM (#35609931)
I don't think rebasing on to Linux offers them much. The current interoperability is "good enough", and the rest is UX - something Microsoft struggles with across the board. It's not for a lack of trying either, they've spent years now working on Fluent and it's still mediocre. Every time you think they make a fantastic decision, they turn around and add 10 more horrible UX choices (see Edge). It's so apparent it feels like as soon as the core design and dev team finalizes something, it gets sent to a penny pinching team who requires it have a bunch of unnecessary cheap bloat.

This is something that won't change on the shift to Linux. It has to be a deep cultural shift, until then the company is never going to prioritize experience.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by yakubin on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @05:21AM (#35611702)
Rebasing on Linux would be replacing the great part (the kernel), while keeping the broken part (shell, ads, millions of GUIs, …)
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by prox on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:25PM (#35608862)
I ran a debloating app on Win11 and I have never ever seen an app, even after countless installs. I am in Europe, so I wonder if there is also a different install here.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by gibspaulding on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:57PM (#35609081)
They work in the states as well. It's ridiculous that you have to run a third party app to make your OS usable out of the box, but it did work, and I haven't even had much trouble with settings flipped back with updates so far.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by CatWChainsaw on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:03PM (#35609122)
Which ones do you recommend?
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by ronjouch on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:38PM (#35609320)
* * *
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by TedDoesntTalk on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:50PM (#35609395)
I don’t see any of those mentioning disabling of MSN content in the Start menu. In fact, at least one of them mentions only Windows 10 and not 11.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by prox on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @05:43AM (#35611853)
I used ThisIsWin11, found on github by builtbybel.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by Liquix on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:25PM (#35609248)
Word to the wise: "debloating" windows 10/11 does not make it stop collecting data on you and sending it to all Jedi Blue II participants. It just hides annoyances. If you are interested in a lean OS which you actually have control over, consider checking out GNU/Linux.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by jsemrau on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:44PM (#35609356)
I am on a pretty vanilla Ubuntu/Gnu install and don't miss a thing. Zoom works, Google Docs works, Telegram/Slack/Discord works. Plus the native python integration is a+++
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by prox on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @03:54AM (#35611207)
I want to but my main computer needs a lot of graphics/animation/design programs that only have a real alternative on Windows. Linux never had strong graphical contenders, for professionals at least. It’s in improving, Blender and Godot are great.

I do have a Pi, so technically I am halfway into Linux ;)

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by benhurmarcel on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:15AM (#35612449)
If you select the locale "English (Europe)" when installing Windows, it doesn't add bloatware. I think that's because they specify which bloatware to include depending on the country, and it's not defined for that locale. You also get a skippable error during installation because the installer doesn't have that locale defined for some message.

https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/windows-ooberegion-bloatware.htm...

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by Waterluvian on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:44PM (#35608596)
Yeah but what percentage of users wanted that feature? Microsoft probably knows.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by throwaway8503 on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:23PM (#35608845)
It's useful as an excuse for the OS to be continuously connected to the internet, which elides nicely into connecting to the internet for search results when you type something in the searchbox.

And you can't argue that it's /useless/. It's more information, and, ceteris paribus, more information is better.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by giantrobot on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:56PM (#35609069)
The problem is it's not data for you, it's data for Microsoft they turn around and sell. Every ping to their servers is more and more tracking data on you. If you sign into the OS with a Microsoft account, which is virtually required with Windows 11, they've got all of that data correlated with you personally rather than some ID string.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by try_the_bass on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:02PM (#35609109)
> The problem is it's not data for you, it's data for Microsoft they turn around and sell.

Why can't it be both? Being data for Microsoft doesn't preclude it from also being data for you. Being able to just put in a query without having to fire up a browser might be a marginal improvement for a lot of people.

And Microsoft doesn't sell you data. No advertising platform does. They sell access to you, by using your data to classify you in ways you can be targeted. It's a subtle difference, but it changes the implications. If someone is making money off of being able to reliably target you based on your data, that means your data is precious to them. Selling it (or losing it) is tantamount to selling their competitive advantage, such as it may be.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by TedDoesntTalk on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:52PM (#35609408)
This misses the point that I don’t want to see news headlines unless I choose to see news headlines.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by try_the_bass on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @01:58AM (#35610449)
I must have missed where that was the point. Can you point it out to me in this thread? There was an earlier mention of the weather widget, but that seems pretty different than "news headlines"?
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by gigel82 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @12:15AM (#35609891)
They collect data, which is what I hate about Windows too. But I doubt they sell it; it would be a pretty dumb thing to do. That's how they're building their "graph" thing that gets mentioned at every conference.

The same graph that will soon feed into the various Copilots and GPT-things to personalize the heck out of your search and document creation which leads to more usage which leads to more data to feed into the graph.

I'm sure some of that "accidentally leaks" into their ad business too (despite their privacy assurances), but again, I doubt they'd ever sell it to 3rd parties (if nothing else, out of fear of litigation... FAANGs usually take PII handling pretty seriously).

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by FridayoLeary on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:48PM (#35608622)
Well it is actually a rather useful feature even if op doesn't like it.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by kevingadd on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:24PM (#35608848)
Personally I use the weather app a lot, but I disabled that godawful taskbar icon the moment it appeared due to the performance hit and the way that it blasts you with right-wing clickbait the moment you click on it. A good version of it would definitely be enabled personally.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by WWLink on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:37PM (#35608935)
What, you don't like seeing a picture of King Cheeto literally every time you go to open a program? How un-patriotic!

(sarcastic humor ofc)

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by fortran77 on Monday April 17, 2023 @09:44PM (#35608980)
I agree it's awful because ordinary users don't bother to turn it off.

But it wasn't _that_ hard to turn it off. I didn't have to hack anything, just look for the settings.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by speed_spread on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:01PM (#35609460)
Except that it's not turned off, it's just hidden. But it's still running.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by wastewastewaste on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @02:06AM (#35610486)
and came back for me after an update...
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by emodendroket on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:16PM (#35609563)
Yeah, looking out the window is usually how I gauge what the temperature is too. That's a reliable way to know what to wear to be comfortable.
Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by sn_master on Monday April 17, 2023 @11:34PM (#35609672)
> I've never wanted that feature

Same for the obligatory stocks feature every OS is obsessed to put when (certainly outside the US) only a tiny minority of people trade stocks.

Re:The Windows 11 Trash Party by blitzar on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @03:15AM (#35610937)
> a tiny minority of people trade stocks

I believe the correct term for it is yolo stonks