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Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by floren on Thursday April 13, 2023 @08:09PM (#35563890)
> I fully trust the technology. It should not fail. But it sometimes happens that a man falls and breaks his neck with no reason at all. Something may happen here too. I do not believe it will happen.

"How do I write a letter to tell my wife I died because the rocket blew up, without sounding like I doubted the glorious Soviet rocket?"

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by ctrlp on Thursday April 13, 2023 @08:29PM (#35564062)
"I wish to dedicate this flight to the people of the new communist society, which we are already entering, to our great Motherland, and to our science"

And make sure the secret police have no reason to suspect you

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by wpwpwpw on Thursday April 13, 2023 @09:10PM (#35564353)
What makes you think he didn't mean what he wrote?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by chx on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:12PM (#35564705)
Of course he didn't. I grew up behind the Iron Curtain, no one, not even high level party members took this bullshit seriously enough to write it truly in the farewell letter of their families. He wrote this to protect his family, if the state believes Yuri was not a true Soviet man they might take away their pension. The reason it's laid down so heavily because the risk was very great as he might be blamed posthumously for a failure. It's easy to understand the desperation from this if you know how to read these...

In books, it was called the "red tail" where you added a section sounding like this to appease the censors.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by bee_rider on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:21PM (#35564774)
Doesn’t it seem possible he’d have a different view of the Soviet Union than you? He was born near the beginning, spent most of his formative years in the Soviet Union that had just made a big contribution to taking down the Nazis and was now launching a him, a former farm-boy, into space. It seems like a pretty compelling story from his point of view!

Unless you are 90 years old, I guess you were born in a Soviet Union on a more obviously bad trajectory.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:36PM (#35564872)
A cursory reading of the history of Stalin's mass murders and deportations puts paid to this. No one living through the Terror mistook this bullshit for a Captain Kirk Iowa boy in space fantasy. And his usefulness isn't lost on the current FSB animals who wear Yuri pins inside their jackets.
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by bee_rider on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:41PM (#35564913)
That is a good point. People can compartmentalize or be surprisingly shielded from some pretty horrifying things, though…
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by zoklet-enjoyer on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:28AM (#35565831)
Almost makes you want to go vegan, doesn't it?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by chx on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:21AM (#35565481)
He was but a small child then, being born in 1934 and they were very good at hiding the worst atrocities which was not exactly hard those years given the rather limited mass communication. No one was posting a Tiktok about the deportation of the Crimean Tatars.
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:16AM (#35565767)
Even with modern communications, most Russians publicly deny knowing that their government is committing atrocities against its own citizens. Of course, they know just as well as people knew throughout the Soviet era. Hence the degree of phoniness in a letter ostensibly to one's spouse that is only intended to satisfy the politburo. Could Gagarin possibly have been unaware of recent history or of what happened to heroes who failed?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by foverzar on Friday April 14, 2023 @06:39PM (#35575773)
Literally every single nation does that. It's a natural bias.

E.g. Americans don't lose sleep over Assange or the fact that Snowden is now a citizen of the evil Russia.

> Hence the degree of phoniness in a letter ostensibly to one's spouse that is only intended to satisfy the politburo

You really don't account for perspective. To Gagarin you'd sound no less phony if you'd said something like "I am proud to pioneer the advancement of our free democratic world". Also, consider that it was a modernist era back then - people hadn't yet really figured out being goofy.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @11:06PM (#35577289)
"I'm proud to pioneer the advancement of our free democratic world" would be a completely weird and abnormal thing for someone to say in a private correspondence. To explain where I'm coming from in seeing the hand of tyranny and fear in this letter: If I ever said anything remotely like that, anyone who knew me would think someone was holding a gun to my head.

Politicians may talk like that. But normal people in ostensibly private communications don't speak in political slogans unless they're either afraid or suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by dmblit on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:56AM (#35565663)
The Terror has ended by October 1938, when Gagarin was 4 years old. I wouldn’t call that “living through”.

I’m not saying there weren’t political prisoners or executions later. There were, but the scale is incomparable. We can safely say Gagarin met a lot of people who had won the war growing up, but he had not seen someone familiar taken to prison for no reason every other day, and I would assume had not heard much about it.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:02AM (#35565698)
You don't see plainly from the language of the letter that he had internalized the terror his parents and society experienced? It's obsequious.
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by dmblit on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:31AM (#35565846)
I didn’t comment the letter, I commented your idea that he lived through the Terror and thus the letter. No, that wasn’t the case.

And once again: the terror the society experienced that was vivid to Gagarin was from the Germans and not from Stalin (although indeed it experienced both).

I don’t want to speak to the tone of the letter, you may interpret it as designed to do something and you may not. But to say that it is somehow influenced by the terror that happened before his time and not to someone in his family, the terror of which for all we know he may knew nothing about, and in society that had a major uniting experience since, is to put your thoughts in his head.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by bilqis on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:48AM (#35567090)
Were we reading the same letter? It’s a sweet and innocent letter, no fear to be seen, not in English translation, nor in original Russian.

It seems that you superimpose your own beliefs on everything, twist the meanings so it would fit in your world view.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by rodary on Thursday April 13, 2023 @11:36PM (#35565244)
> no one, not even high level party members took this bullshit seriously enough

Don't know when you were born (I was in the 1960s). You're wrong. A lot of people, especially Gagarin's generation, took what you call bullshit seriously and believed in it. Hence, were willing to lay down their life for the cause.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by FpUser on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:34AM (#35565562)
>"A lot of people, especially Gagarin's generation, took what you call bullshit seriously and believed in it."

This is true. Many people did believe back then.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by kortilla on Friday April 14, 2023 @02:20AM (#35566129)
It was the USSR, nobody did. But there was a vast institution dedicated to ensuring that everyone maintained the doublespeak.

A country can achieve great things and be built on a greater lie that everyone pays homage to but doesn’t really believe.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by LeoPanthera on Thursday April 13, 2023 @09:57PM (#35564621)
It launched on top of a "Vostok-K" rocket, which ultimately launched 13 times, 11 successfully.

I don't know if an ~85% success rate is actually good, but given that this was the very early days of the exploration of space, I'm willing to accept that it's not bad.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:31PM (#35564840)
yeah, the whole letter sounds like it was coded with a gun to his and his wife's head.
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by FpUser on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:36AM (#35565570)
Nope. It does not
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:04AM (#35565709)
Real letters to wives don't include patriotic and political phrases about children being raised in a new paradise to come, except those written by cult members and those (in this case) written under duress.
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by RedCondor on Friday April 14, 2023 @02:43AM (#35566270)
A farmboy going to space praising communism makes a whole lot of sense.

Just compare to the average nonsense you hear even impoverished American peasants say about "freedom."

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @01:26PM (#35572144)
So your argument is he was a brainwashed peasant?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by RedCondor on Friday April 14, 2023 @02:15PM (#35572792)
I think "brainwashing" is a nonsense, racist concept invented by the CIA in the 1950s, by agent Edward Hunter passing himself off as a "journalist," in order to superciliously rationalize away the powerful appeal of communism to working class people.

So, depending on how you look at it, yes and no.

https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:03PM (#35573983)
Surely brainwashing as used now can describe any type of system. Weren't the nazis brainwashed? Aren't you implying that the American peasants are brainwashed? How could it be that the only people who were truly free and doing what they wanted were the ones living in a dictatorship featuring show trials and a gulag system?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by RedCondor on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:08PM (#35574049)
Absolutely not. The Nazi project was extremely logical, and had massive conscious support from Germany, especially from its elites.

Germany explicitly argued they wanted to replicate the American expansion into the "Far West" but against the Eastern European "Far East" instead, and explicitly made positive reference to the genocide of indigenous people, the enslavement of Africans, and the "greatness" of America.

Hitler: "The struggle we are waging [in Crimea] against the Partisans resembles very much the struggle in North America against the Red Indians. Victory will go to the strong, and strength is on our side. At all costs we will establish law and order there. […] Saxony, for example, will enjoy an unprecedented trade boom, and we shall create for her a most profitable export market, which it will be the task of Saxon inventive genius to develop."

The Germans felt themselves as Americans. They weren't "brainwashed," they were just racist.

The Soviet Union built itself up through hard work and they had every right to be proud of what they accomplished, especially the defeat of Nazi (and more generally Western) efforts to enslave them, and especially since, unlike their Western counterparts, they accomplished it through hard work rather than through pillaging and looting the rest of the planet.

"Brainwashing" doesn't exist. It's a way for liberals—American liberals especially—to falsify history and to refuse to accept what people are saying, discarding it as nonsense in favour of more palatable and self-exculpatory narratives.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by noduerme on Friday April 14, 2023 @08:06PM (#35576363)
The "brainwashing" I refer to in nazi germany would be the initial racist belief in "aryans" and their supposed superiority. Sure, once someone had been indoctrinated with such state sponsored quasi-religious propaganda, one could say that the looting and pillaging followed logically. But it followed logically from an unprovable belief in a racist utopian future, which was only falsified by their defeat (at the hands of not just the USSR, but the western liberal democracies you seem bent on demonizing).

Likewise, the looting and starvation of Ukraine and the conquest of the Baltics under Stalin, and the subjugation of Central and Eastern Europe, the mass murder of Poles, the invasions to put down popular democratic movements in Czechoslovakia and Hungary were forms of expansionist pillaging, just as the looting of Ukraine is today, which follow "logically" from a total ideology once a population is properly indoctrinated. Of course not to "open markets" but to spread the communism which apparently everyone loves so much it must be enforced at gunpoint. If you object so strenuously to the term "brainwashing" then "propagandizing" and/or failing that instilling terror in the populace would work equally well. But let's not be ahistorical and pretend that the collectivization and industrialization of the USSR didn't come at the cost of tens of millions of lives and as a result of an expansionist, imperialist series of conquests.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by matbatt38 on Friday April 14, 2023 @03:34AM (#35566582)
Yeah right never heard of spontaneous patriotism from the average not-under-gunpoint-american
[dead]
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by dang on Friday April 14, 2023 @07:46PM (#35576267)
> You definitely have no clue

Please edit out swipes like that from your HN posts. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Your comment would be fine without that sentence.

Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by foverzar on Friday April 14, 2023 @06:43PM (#35575809)
Like in 2023, post-post-modernist or meta-modernist era, or universally whenever, including Gagarin's modernist age?
Re:I hope you will never see this letter (1961) by bilqis on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:44AM (#35567068)
What he means, that accidents happen. Same accidents that took so many American astronauts’ lives with a very sophisticated hardware, not something done first time in the history.

It’s bizarre how you invent stuff between the lines to support some bias.