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Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by aEJ04Izw5HYm on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @10:40AM (#35455060)
Can we take a minute to re-direct this conversation away from just the politics of SF?

I want to draw attention to Bob Lee, a well-respected technologist and prototype hacker, always curious and sharing lots of interesting technical developments. He was a great role model for how Engineers should be respected in an executive capacity as he advanced his career from 'Software' to 'Product'. His efforts contributed to technology used by millions. What happened to him is tragic and wrong; he deserved better. Thank you, I'll miss you 'crazybob'.

Please share your stories featuring Bob Lee, who I'm sure would like to be remembered for his contributions rather than as a victim of this unfortunate awful event.

[dead]
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by Eisenstein on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:12AM (#35455577)
Good job completely ignoring the parent's request to not politicize it in this one thread. Do you think your outrage is helping anything here? Do you feel like you are being a benefit in this instance?

There are plenty of places you can be upset that aren't in this one specific thread.

I suggest next time you take the time to think for a seconds before hitting 'reply'.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by m0llusk on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:07AM (#35455480)
There are a number of ways to deal with criminals before they harden and kill. Schools and sanitariums are among these tools. Currently SF schools are failing to teach large fractions of their students basic reading skills and people known to have serious mental health problems are left on the street. While it does make sense to be serious about crime it also makes sense to be serious about dealing with people who have not yet turned to crime since by then even strong efforts may be too little and too late.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by cmh89 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:17AM (#35455660)
San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States. Do you have any data to support your argument that the 'catch and release' policy creates substantially more danger than traditional American judicial policies?
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by miles on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @02:54PM (#35458816)
> San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States.

See cheeseblubber's comment[1] which cites[2]: "With a crime rate of 54 per one thousand residents, San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 18." It goes on to compare with NY[3]: "The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in New York is 1 in 40."

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454781

[2] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime#des...

[3] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime#descript...

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by cmh89 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @05:33PM (#35460656)
Your comparing a safe big city to the safest big city. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I didn't say SF was the safest city in the country.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by miles on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @05:42PM (#35460768)
> I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

“San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities.”

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by cmh89 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @05:56PM (#35460932)
The definition of danger is

'able or likely to cause harm or injury.'

From Google/Oxford.

I said

"San Francisco isn't anywhere close to *most dangerous city* in the United States."

You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by miles on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:22PM (#35461229)
> You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part.

No, it's just a definition of "dangerous" much closer to Merriam-Websters' first entry for the word[1]:

"involving possible injury, pain, harm, or loss"

If you do not consider carjackings, break-ins, burglaries, and the like to be dangerous, we simply have different working definitions, that's all.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dangerous

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by cmh89 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:07PM (#35461728)
Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries? I've never heard of San Francisco having frequent carjackings or break-ins, or even burglaries. It's mostly petty theft like smashing a car window or stealing a bike.

You're trying to use the amount of petty theft, which does suck, to pretend that San Francisco is a dangerous city, which its not.

If you look at just violent crimes, San Francisco isn't in the conversation.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by miles on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:30PM (#35461965)
> Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries?

Vehicle thefts and carjackings spike in major US cities[1]: "The number of carjackings - defined as auto theft or attempted theft by force or threat - rose by 24% in seven cities: Baltimore, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, Memphis, Norfolk and San Francisco."

Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says[2]

Perhaps most tellingly[3]:

"In September 2022, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that a poll of 1,653 city residents found that over the past five years, 45% of San Francisco residents had been the victim of theft and 24% had been either been threatened with violence or had been the victim of a violent crime.[4]"

> If you look at just violent crimes

If we are shifting the conversation from "dangerous" to "violent", I would certainly agree with you. My concern is similar to that expressed by huevosabio[5] based on his experience in Mexico: "Every crime that goes unprosecuted is an invitation for a repeat crime. This is as true in Juarez as it is in San Francisco."

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64414985

[2] https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/nearly-half-of-san-f...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco

[4] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfp...

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457841

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by cmh89 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @08:23PM (#35462447)
>"The number of carjackings - defined as auto theft or attempted theft by force or threat - rose by 24% in seven cities: Baltimore, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, Memphis, Norfolk and San Francisco."

Cool. If your town has one carjacking, and the next it has two, thats a big increase. So again, I'll repeat, does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings?

>Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

Yes, petty theft is rampant there.

>If we are shifting the conversation from "dangerous" to "violent",

Just to clarify, we were always talking about violent crimes. Carjacking and break-ins are violent crimes. Petty theft is not. The conversation is not "shifting", you are just applying the word dangerous to situations where it doesn't apply.

>My concern is similar to that expressed by huevosabio[5] based on his experience in Mexico: "Every crime that goes unprosecuted is an invitation for a repeat crime. This is as true in Juarez as it is in San Francisco."

That's irrelevant to our conversation.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by CTmystery on Thursday April 06, 2023 @10:40AM (#35468905)
There's really no good stats on SF car jackings, unfortunately. The SFPD crime data is too coarse to discriminate carjackings from other car theft. I think the best you could do, unfortunately, is comb news stories and try to get a sense of the frequency. A quick google search turns these up:

Dec 22: https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/crime/man-shot-during-attemp...

Feb 6th: https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/assault-carjacking-suspect-a...

Feb 21st (and mentions a second Nov 7th): https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/armed-carjackings-near-s...

Mar 1st: https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/teens-carjack-couple...

You could perhaps automate something to give you a proxy statistic. Hell, it may end up a better statistic than what the SFPD has.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by miles on Saturday April 08, 2023 @03:44PM (#35496882)
I did the math. SF is 2.6x more dangerous per sq mi than any other US city

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35496700

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/105IDODri5Qbi3Mj-SGHF...

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by kayge on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:13AM (#35455597)
His story about becoming the Code Red Vigilante (writing a program to help stop the spread of the Code Red worm) is a fun flash back to the early 2000s hacking scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElYs3hXSkI
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by datalus on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:51PM (#35457036)
bruh the screen savers is such a blast from the past and peak late 90s/early 00s tech. It's crazy to think Martin Sargent co-hosted with Digg's co-founder Kevin Rose quite a bit on that show.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by ethbr0 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @03:54PM (#35459574)
At this point, there's probably a whole generation on HN that isn't familiar with Digg, much less anything before.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by mbernstein on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:21AM (#35455712)
I met Bob at StrangeLoop in (I think) 2014. He was there with Joshua Bloch and I entered a coding challenge and got to have dinner with them at a local pizza place. He was such an amazingly nice, gracious, intelligent, and giving person. He'll be immensely missed by the whole community.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by Scubabear68 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:24AM (#35455747)
I remember fondly interacting with him quite a bit 20 years ago early (?) in his "crazy bob" phase on theserverside.com, and the epic flamewars around Java backend frameworks and app servers. Quite a shock to hear of his death.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by obiefernandez on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:12PM (#35456493)
Those were the days!
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by KingOfCoders on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @04:55PM (#35460254)
Did some googling today, sorry for my comment! (But mine was one of the nicer ones ;-)

"Obie is one of those Ruby developers with no programming experience"

http://blog.crazybob.org/2007/09/gavin-king-on-activerecord....

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by Scubabear68 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @05:28PM (#35460603)
The tech has changed, but the Flamewars were just as hot 2 decades ago! Bob was never afraid to have an opinion.

A bit sad to see all those deadlinks in the comments though. From what I recall sites like JRoller were captured by the Way Back machine, but images seem to have been lost. At least they were for my blog at the time.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by KingOfCoders on Thursday April 06, 2023 @12:28AM (#35464131)
Yes, JRoller, TheServerSide, I remember when they launched, I think I got paid for writing a review or something, "lost like tears in the rain".
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by hobr on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @01:49PM (#35457913)
I met him around the same time and we did the conference circuit together for a fair few years.

I vividly remember being sucked into his craziness more than a few times in my formative years!

A fun, welcoming guy and an incredible technologist.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by tomandrews88 on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @02:11PM (#35458253)
> being sucked into his craziness

Just curious what was he like in terms of the craziness? Partying? Skydiving?

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by hobr on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @02:25PM (#35458451)
My experience was the partying. He seemed to have boundless energy for it and it was infectious.

I remember arriving at a conference with serious jet lag and just wanting to sleep. I grabbed dinner with a few of the other speakers and Bob's energy was enough to turn dinner into drinks and drinks into skipping the whole night's sleep.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by springrod on Saturday April 08, 2023 @12:08AM (#35490440)
Certainly partying. But also unpredictable (good unpredictable) and creative in unexpected ways. Good crazy.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by excerionsforte on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:25AM (#35455786)
I wish some of the comments from below were merged into this comment for better visibility of those comments. There are things in those comments about what he did in his lifetime that are great to hear about.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454844

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454971

3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35451821

4. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35449584

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by dang on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @01:30PM (#35457617)
I've moved all those comments to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341 now and will try to find the rest that belong there and move them too.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by BigCryo on Thursday April 06, 2023 @07:51PM (#35476168)
Here is a quote from an article describing the security camera footage of the incident...

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/video-appears-to-sho...

"Surveillance footage reviewed by The Standard shows Lee, who had already been stabbed, walking up Main Street away from the Bay Bridge.....Lee crosses the intersection at Harrison Street and walks up to a parked white Camry with its hazard lights flashing.

Lee then lifts his shirt—as if to show the driver his wound and ask for help—and falls to the ground after the car drives away, the footage shows. He gets up and walks back toward the Bay Bridge before falling to the ground again ....

At some point, Lee dialed 911 and repeatedly screamed for help, saying he needed to go to the hospital....

Lee was unconscious when officers found him on the ground, police said."

So looks like he was stabbed and he was wandering around in the middle of San Fran trying to get someone to help him even lifting up his shirt to show people his wound and no one would help him..

The reason our large cities are hellscapes is because in part all institutions censor dissenting comments.. cough cough cough cough...

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by kumarm on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @11:27AM (#35455812)
No one in java community can forget Crazybob. He was one of the engineers that showed path to many on how to move from being engineer to executive. RIP.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by vwoolf on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:08PM (#35456439)
For at least three years, and likely much longer, SF has decided not to basic law enforcement. The results, including and up to murder, are here. How many dead does it take for SF to decide basic law enforcement, including prosecution, is actually a good idea? How many windows smashed? How many needles on the street? At some point, one hopes that the people of SF get tired of crime, and vote consistently with that.

Lee is likely dead in part because of SF's pro-crime policies, and that is why people are discussing this.

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by webstrand on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:10PM (#35456463)
They're not dismissing that, just requesting that this thread of comments be on a different topic.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by jxramos on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @12:12PM (#35456488)
What happened three years ago? Did they kick off some inverse broken windows policing test or something that they're in the middle of right now?
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by dang on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @01:15PM (#35457402)
I agree and am going to partition these threads so that there's a place to remember Bob Lee that isn't an argument about current affairs.

To facilitate this, I've taken the liberty of converting your text here into a new submission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341) and am going to move the relevant comments there. I hope that's ok with you (and if not, let me know and I'll rework this).

Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by igetspam on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @03:04PM (#35458950)
Thank you.
Re:Bob Lee, Former CTO Square, Creator of CashApp, Stabbed t... by patcon on Thursday April 06, 2023 @08:30AM (#35467460)
Yeah, thanks so much. I actually had regret for engaging and piling on to a comment. It was pretty tasteless on my part :(