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Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by sb618 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:43AM (#35408810)
A bit of a detraction from the link but can anyone who's lived for a significant amount of time in both the UK and the US confirm that £100k is equivalent to $200k?

It seems fairly unlikely to me as UK tax and NI would be around 50% plus everything you purchase has 20% VAT. Sure medical insurance in the US is insane but surely that doesn't quite cover it.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by eckesicle on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:49AM (#35408863)
I worked at Coinbase making 140k GBP in base compensation.

My SF based colleagues with the same job title were making 250k USD (so 202k GBP).

We sat down one day and compared our household budgets line by line and in the end we estimated that 'money left over' for equivalent house, medical and kids education my American colleagues were slightly better off, but maybe only by 5-10k USD per year.

Anecdatally ...

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by nivenkos on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:32AM (#35409103)
140k is an incredible salary in the UK though, like top 0.1% at least.

It's also hard to compare things 1:1 - since the NHS is "free" (via taxation), but it doesn't cover dentistry at all really whereas equivalent good US health insurances will do.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by lozenge on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:44AM (#35409163)
You're off but not by much, 1% earn over 183k, 2% earn over 128k and 3% earn over 104k meaning they were in the top 2% of income earners.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f...

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by dan-robertson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @08:40PM (#35417085)
Also top deciles are concentrated in London / the south east so a lower %ile when you restrict to London
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by airpoint on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:17AM (#35410191)
Incredible salary in the UK != incredible salary in London
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by hhmc on Sunday April 02, 2023 @11:15AM (#35411402)
You are gated from almost nothing in London on £140K -- the only meaningful exception would be buying a house in a central location
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by shawabawa3 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:57AM (#35408918)
Bare in mind at the time coinbase also paid above market rate in London (London rates were cut for new hires shortly after IIRC) (I also worked at CB London)
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by NullPrefix on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:05AM (#35408956)
How much of the budget was mortgage? Because with mortgage you can sell the expensive house afterwards.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by hhmc on Sunday April 02, 2023 @11:18AM (#35411457)
Not the part of the mortgage that's accumulated interest -- which is going to be considerable at current rates.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by BoorishBears on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:54AM (#35408893)
The fact that people living in SF managed to be ahead by anything proves there's a massive delta, especially since you're wording this in past-tense (SF has gotten cheaper depending on the timeline you consider)
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by vidarh on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:07AM (#35408966)
I earn well above that and my effective tax rate is well below 50%. The top marginal rate is 47% except for a narrow band due to phase out of personal allowance, but my effective rate is lower.

With respect to VAT, it nudges my total tax paid up about 4 percentage points. Total, including VAT, NI, and council tax is still well below 50%.

Remember, you're not going to spend nearly all of your pre tax earnings on VAT rated goods and services, given you pay tax and housing andany other things which does not incur VAT.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by dan-robertson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:14AM (#35409010)
It’s worth considering employer payroll taxes which might be different (though my memory from looking it up a while ago was that the payroll taxes weren’t so different). It’s also possible to have another effective 9% marginal tax from student ‘loans’ though that will go away after a while.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by vidarh on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:54AM (#35409225)
It's not normal to count payroll taxes as part of the employers tax, as that would also increase the gross salary above that which the employee considers their salary to be. E.g. nobody factors that in when comparing California salaries to the many US states with no payroll tax.

Even so, you need to get up towards 300k GBP/year to exceed 50% even with the payroll tax. And that assumes you're making zero pension contributions (as contributions are offset against your tax up to 40k gross/year)

With respect to student loans, sure, you can add that in but then you need to do that when comparing to the US salary levels in this thread too.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by dan-robertson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:10AM (#35409311)
Payroll taxes matter to some extent when comparing employment in different tax regimes because they determine (some of) the total cost to the employer. They can also matter for contracting arrangements. Though the local job market probably matters more.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by vidarh on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:17AM (#35409347)
Yes, but the sub-thread here started with someone suggesting they'd be paying 50% tax, and when talking in terms of employees, it's not normal to include it. When including it, we're usually talking about total tax wedge rather than tax rate (e.g. see OECD Taxing Wages).

Even so, as noted, you'd not hit 50% even with payroll taxes at anywhere near the income levels stated. At the stated 100k GBP contracted salary, your "salary" including payroll tax would be 113,207 GBP, and your total tax wedge would be 41% (compared to 33% combined income tax and NI).

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by dan-robertson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @02:44PM (#35413777)
Fair point. I was mostly responding to the bit from the root comment about the comparison between countries and not their incorrect understanding of taxes in the U.K.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by dan-robertson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:07AM (#35408969)
I think it’s a bit hard to make direct comparisons because the US is more varied in things like tax policy or having multiple important cities.

For a while, the strong pound made it seem like people in the U.K. were well paid compared to most developed countries (not the US which tends to have higher pay than basically any other medium or large country) but I think this was mostly just the strong pound and purchasing power wasn’t much higher in the U.K.

The pound has fallen a lot in the last decade and I think various numbers like pay have been somewhat sticky and not really gone up to match the increased cost of imports.

To attempt to make a comparison, if you live in central London vs Manhattan, tax rates will be comparable (maybe more so if you double both gross salaries), rents in Manhattan will be something like 2x (probably more) based on apartment type but you’ll potentially get something bigger/nicer in NY (ie partly it is about a difference in the average unit, but if all you can get is a large apartment, you have to pay for all of it so controlling for such qualities isn’t so relevant). Rent controls mean that the supply of apartments is less than might be expected based on the number of housing units In Manhattan. Groceries (in Manhattan) are more expensive, as are things like restaurants. The comparison doesn’t feel totally crazy to me.

Other US cities may be different though, eg I don’t know how the taxes/rent would work out in SF or the Bay Area or Seattle or Chicago. There isn’t really much of an alternative to London in the U.K. in the same way that there are many ‘top’ cities in the US and tax policy is much more uniform between locations.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by onion2k on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:57AM (#35408912)
£100k in the UK a top 10% wage for the country, but the wages in the UK are massively skewed towards London and the South East.

As for the tax, we have progressive taxation in the UK. Earning £100k, you'd pay 0% on the first 12.5k, 25% on the next 70k or so, and 45% on the last 27.5k (numbers are from memory so they might be a little off). High wage earners are not giving up half their income in tax. That'd be silly.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by jstx1 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:41AM (#35409147)
Your numbers are way off. From next week it's:

    Basic rate of 20% on earnings between £12,571 and £50,270.
    Higher Rate of 40% on earnings between £50,271 and £125,139.
    Additional Rate of 45% on earnings from £125,140.

You also gradually lose your tax-free allowance if you make over £100k so there's a weird dead zone in which your marginal rate is something like 60%.

Then there's NI which is effectively tax too but isn't listed in the bands above. Someone on £150k is paying 40% tax and NI (total, not marginal). Not quite half but it's now low either.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by LandR on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:52AM (#35409593)
Are for those of us in Scotland, that 40% is 41% :/
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by teh_klev on Sunday April 02, 2023 @10:20PM (#35417781)
Yes and kicks in at just over 43k :(
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by Jochim on Sunday April 02, 2023 @08:38AM (#35409914)
The problem is most people simply aren't rich enough. The effective tax rate of our current, and richest, prime minister was only 22%. I'm on the low end of the higher rate bracket and already pay more than that, before counting NI/loans.
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by teh_klev on Sunday April 02, 2023 @10:19PM (#35417777)
That's for England and Wales. In Scotland it's different:

Personal Allowance Up to £12,570 0%

Starter rate £12,571 to £14,732 19%

Basic rate £14,733 to £25,688 20%

Intermediate rate £25,689 to £43,662 21%

Higher rate £43,663 to £150,000 41%

Top rate over £150,000 46%

Source: https://www.gov.uk/scottish-income-tax

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by vidarh on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:12AM (#35408997)
Including NI it's more like 32% and 42%, and the 40% + 2% NI kicks in lower than that. But, yeah, the effective rate is far lower.

You hit 33% income tax + NI at 100k (see listentotaxman.com)

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by midasuni on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:54AM (#35408900)
100k in the U.K. assuming no student loans to repay would be £66,777 net.

Most things I purchase have no tax - food, housing, train fares.

The oil for this winter heating cost £1500 plus £75 vat.

Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by JonChesterfield on Sunday April 02, 2023 @11:10AM (#35411331)
Food, housing and train fares are all taxed?
Re:UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k by raverbashing on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:10AM (#35408981)
People assume wrongly but not everything has 20% VAT in the UK/EU and in the US not everything has the sticker price on it (think tips + sales tax + a lot of BS fees or friction as well around) so calculations have to consider those