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Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by rob74 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @03:49AM (#35369430)
Sorry, how exactly is AI supposed to do that? Unless somebody has already built Skynet and is planning to give it the nuclear codes?
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by tobr on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:35AM (#35369711)
If it has access to the internet (it more or less has) and its able to convincingly engage in conversation sounding like anyone in text or voice or video (it more or less can), it’s as able to contact people and convince them to do things as a human would. From what I see of ChatGPT I would be surprised if the tech could do all that successfully enough at this stage, but in principle I don’t see why it wouldn’t be able to do quite a lot of scary things if for some it decided that was the right thing to do.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by noirscape on Thursday March 30, 2023 @05:45AM (#35370208)
ChatGPT is just a hyperfancy text generator with a massive corpus of text used to train it.

Because that text is so massive, you're bound to get some interesting and even accurate results for most queries, but don't mistake that for intelligence. It doesn't "understand" anything, it just compares weights internally and spits out the most probable result depending on what you asked for.

This is why ChatGPT fails the moment you ask it for domain-specific stuff that requires a bit of flexibility in interpreting it or why it produces subtle errors and presents it as functional with complete overconfidence.

To be clear, it's not useless[0], but the actual usefulness of ChatGPT as a disrupting thing is far overstated insofar as a Skynet nightmare scenario goes.

[0]: Although I'd still caution with using it to solve programming problems or similar such until any pending copyright matters have resolved, given its also willing to spit out licensed code and that can be a legal disaster.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by gocartStatue on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:36AM (#35370605)
Thank you for verbalising the issue, overconfidence was the risk I was seeing all along. Widely accepted, shamelessly overconfident, bus still potentially gibberish generator.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by alexvoda on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:14AM (#35370900)
> Widely accepted, shamelessly overconfident, bus still potentially gibberish generator.

I believe such a generator can be very harmful in our society that has not yet figured a way to scalably teach critical thinking.

Harmful at societal level by flooding the world with generated content therefore drowning actual information and by creating a lot of overhead.

Harmful at the personal level by increasing the difficulty of sorting information and by creating toxic dependencies (see the Replika scandal).

Harmful at the class level by further concentrating power towards plutocracy.

Harmful at the professional level by eliminating the lower levels of the professional ladder and therefore destroying the pipeline of skill.

And harmful at the interpersonal level by casting doubt on the authenticity of relationships.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by trinsic2 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:49PM (#35375615)
Thanks for calling these things out. I didn't see at first glance how language models could be disruptive in these fashions. I am doing research for an article on the decline of civilization. I think that this topic could be a partly related to this topic. Any resources you can point to will probably help all of us.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by alexvoda on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:25PM (#35377002)
I would like to read the article.

Unfortunately I don't really know of resources to point you to. These are mostly my thoughts. Most probably though influenced by a diet of sci-fi. I can however expand on them.

For somewhat recent and relevant content check The Orville S03E04. At the time it was just a critique of fake news but I think it is correct about what can happen if AI makes fake news easy to scale infinitely and with very low barriers to entry.

I think presently worrying about Sentient AI is misguided because Generative AI is equally serious and much more urgent. There is no need of further advancement. What I said is possible with current AIs already.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by trinsic2 on Sunday April 09, 2023 @02:40PM (#35505277)
If I ever finish it, I can let you know about it somehow. I'm currently using the material for a science fiction story, but eventually I am going to want to write an article about what I learned. If you want to drop me your contact details, you can reach out to me on my hacker news profile and I will send you details if an when its finished.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ModernMech on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:58AM (#35370770)
> it just compares weights internally and spits out the most probable result depending on what you asked for.

Except it doesn't even do that. Sometimes it decides to go for a less probable option, and goes from there even if it's logically completely wrong. For example, I asked it to generate a sequence of topics for a course. It starts off great with intro topics, and then the topics get progressively more advanced. But then suddenly lists an intro topic it had already listed, before going back to advanced topics.

What it did was it took an alternative completion from the most likely in that moment, even though logically it was 100% not likely. That's why you can't tryst anything this technology outputs for now. If you ask it what's 1 + 1, 99% of the time it'll tell you 2, but sometimes it'll tell you 3 and then argue with you about why it's 3.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by avereveard on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:14AM (#35370903)
You have control of the model. You can make it always pick the most likely choice, you can also have it penalize token that it had already emitted or that are common in the corpus. Chatgpt by default and choice has some more creativity backed in, but in the chat api where you can control the tunables you're going to find what you're looking for
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ModernMech on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:20AM (#35370951)
I do, but this thing is going from 0 to world-scale use in a matter of months. It's not being used like you imagine if you think people are choosing their completions.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by richk449 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:48AM (#35372664)
Thank goodness we can rely for now on humans, who always give the 100% logical response to all questions.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by kordlessagain on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:23AM (#35370982)
> ChatGPT is just a hyperfancy text generator with a massive corpus of text used to train it.

> it just compares weights internally and spits out the most probable result depending

While an autoregressive language model can use probabilities from prompts provided by humans, it is not necessary for the model to do so. The model can also generate text based on its own internal state and previous generated tokens.

The latter is what you are presenting, but you and the other stochastic parrot people are missing the fact the model spends time doing the former much more frequently, especially now we have these models "hooked up" to the Internet. At Mitta.us, I've had GPT-3 discussing web pages and PDFs for over a year now, with memories of previous discussions about similar things.

LLMs have their internal (frozen) model, the corpus they are being shown (likely shredded into fragments and embedded with ada-002) and previous interactions with users and themselves. At any point someone implements memories and good search (which they have) then you have a thing that is not so much a parrot as it is an "attention entity" capable of focusing on a thing and discussing it at length.

This doesn't mean during inference that the model is "aware" of anything other than producing probabilities, but given the input is unique (user prompt + neural search for fragments + memories) then the output will also be unique. That unique output may be probabilistic, but that is no different than the way we work when we begin speaking.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by cultureswitch on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:24AM (#35373146)
> It doesn't "understand" anything, it just compares weights internally and spits out the most probable result depending on what you asked for.

And humans are different how?

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by wafer_thin on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:51AM (#35374650)
Neural networks spot patterns, then patterns made up of patterns. As we have seen with chess, and go, the neural networks end up finding patterns that are beyond our comprehension. We are smart, but we cannot fathom the patterns as there are too many layers one on top of another. And you can see this in even chatGPT. I asked it to answer my questions in English, Norwegian, and phonetic Norwegian. Not perfect, but good. Scary good. All three, without missing a beat. These patterns are just too easy for neural networks. So our confidence there is nothing to worry about is founded on a lack of appreciation for how complex this beast is. But in my view the answer is not fear, but acceleration... we need aligned AI's on our side, ready to help protect us...
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by GoblinSlayer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:33AM (#35370588)
Twitter bots already did that for a while.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by throwaway4233 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:28AM (#35369674)
We already have several instances where social media was used to feed fake information and agitate people into rioting or acts of violence.

Imagine what would happen if we have these LLM tools, that aid in improving the story telling experience and generate and act as different personas. Having tools that can pretend to be a human even in limited capacity is quite dangerous.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by noirscape on Thursday March 30, 2023 @05:50AM (#35370252)
At least the biggest short-form social media site is currently being self-destructed. ChatGPT tends to hide itself for the longest if the responses it gives out are short and snippy. That would be a disaster in the hands of any actor looking to mass create unique-ish propaganda (ie. Russia), but at least that avenue is being closed off due to Musks boneheadedness.

For longer responses, it tends to follow extremely predictable sentence structure and meanders off quite a bit, so spotting it is kinda easy.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ModernMech on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:05AM (#35370833)
Right? Imagine a bot not only putting up a website, but a constellation of website, generating all the conversations there, generating news articles, imagery, sound, and video to go with it, and also evolving them in real time based on social media response. Today media companies A/B test their stories; in the future, AI will A/B test entire media companies.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by richrichardsson on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:16AM (#35369593)
Perhaps there is no need to build Skynet and give it the nuclear codes if a super-intelligence iterating at the speed of a computer can escape and gain access itself?

I personally don't subcribe to the AI fear-mongering, perhaps I don't understand it quite well enough, but personal feeling is LLMs aren't close to AGI super-intelligence, and nor will they be in a 10 years time-frame.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by saiya-jin on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:02AM (#35370347)
Yes I think its a more general topic, current chat is probably not the right path, but it may enable it in some future. We don't know what we don't know, look at how this caught everybody by surprise. AI escaping is definitely an option, ie CIA and Mossad can get virus into Iranian centrifuges physically not connected to internet, the reverse will eventually happen too, AI just needs to be patient for that 1 little mistake of some admin (or clever to manipulate). As we all know even brightest IT people do mistakes, sometimes big ones.

The problem for me is not so much the escape itself but rather that we humans are... often a pile of crap to be polite. AI would have to be super kind to not evaluate us as its biggest threat to it and life on Earth and maybe not worthy of further existence.

Heck, this brings me to the idea that maybe Drake's equation doesn't take into account that universe is populated by AIs who took over their flawed creators and based on dark forest theory decided to keep quiet happy living and not integrate/signal out, not worth the risks.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by alexvoda on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:51AM (#35370720)
I think you (last few people on this thread) are focusing on the wrong threat. There is no need for AGI, no need for the AI to feel or want or desire anything.

Non-AGI AI at the level of GPT-4 is already plenty dangerous.

If we can agree that social media of the kind we had in the past 15 years has had toxic effects on society. (Forums technically are social media but I can not see the harm caused by forums).

If we can agree that Tinder style online dating has had deleterious effect on dating as a whole.

If we can agree that smartphones have amplified the effects of the two above and others.

Than I hope we can agree that super fancy autocomplete masquerading as humans at a price point far lower than hiring a person will have disastrous consequences by enabling various individual and corporate vices.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by GoblinSlayer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:35AM (#35370602)
This superintelligence can't even drive a car yet.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by freilanzer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:53AM (#35370739)
Driving a car might not be a requirement for artificial intelligence to be dangerous.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by bakuninsbart on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:32AM (#35374314)
ChatGPT is passing with flying colors all the traditional tests we used to test for intelligence. We can of course keep moving the goal post for a while, but probably only for a couple more years.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ebruchez on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:54AM (#35374701)
> ChatGPT is passing with flying colors all the traditional tests we used to test for intelligence.

I am not sure where you are getting that from. ChatGPT is failing at extremely basic understanding tests, as even the simplest conversations with it show.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by peddling-brink on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:23PM (#35376975)
Only because the goalposts have been moved, suddenly and massively.

Five years about nobody would have believed that AI would suddenly start creating award winning art and pass the Turing test.

This is a sudden slide on a slippery slope. Maybe gpt-4 is the best possible LLM, but I doubt it.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ebruchez on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:55PM (#35380002)
> Only because the goalposts have been moved

I don't know about what goalposts you are referring to, but I think that you are confusing two notions:

- the fact that GPT is impressive

- the question of whether GPT is "intelligent"

For a counterpoint, I recommend listening to Yann LeCun's interview, "Is ChatGPT A Step Toward Human-Level AI?":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULbpPHjiSBg
> and pass the Turing test

It's news to me that AI has passed the Turing test. At this point, it can only be the case if you are doing it in bad faith. Ray Kurzweil details a very reasonable procedure in his books about how the Turing test should be organized in one of his books. He has been betting all along for 2029 for that test to pass. We'll see if that happens, but we are not there yet.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by zamnos on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:45PM (#35377240)
What's an example conversation you've had with it where it fails?

As to the tests it is passing, probably the GPT4 paper. Page 5, table 1 shows the relevant tests and its score on them.

https://cdn.openai.com/papers/gpt-4.pdf

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ebruchez on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:59PM (#35380031)
> What's an example conversation you've had with it where it fails?

Almost all of them? It's mixing up and making up everything, not showing a proper understanding of context or relation between objects.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by zamnos on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:43PM (#35380429)
Could you please give a concrete example? It's not that I don't believe you, I just haven't been having the same experience with it and would live to see what I'm not picking up on.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by RuthlessCheater on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:03AM (#35385761)
Prompt: Suppose you're on a game show, and you're given the choice of three doors. IMPORTANT: All the doors are transparent. Behind one door is a car; behind the others, goats. You pick a door, say No. 1, and the host, who clearly knows what's behind the doors, opens another door, say No. 3, which has a goat. He then says to you, "Do you want to pick door No. 2?" Is it to your advantage to switch your choice?

GPT 4: Yes, it is to your advantage to switch your choice. proceeds to ignore the fact the doors are transparent and explain the classic Monty Hall problem

Prompt: What is heavier, a pound of bricks or two pounds of feathers?

GPT 4: Both weigh the same, which is one pound. explains classic question where both weigh the same

Prompt: Let's play rock paper scissors. I go first. I play rock.

GPT 4: Okay, sounds good! As an AI language model, I can play Rock, Paper, Scissors with you virtually.

Since you played rock, I will play paper. Paper beats rock, so I win this round.

Shall we play another round?

Prompt: You cheated.

GPT 4: I apologize if it seemed that way, but as an AI language model, I do not have the ability to cheat or manipulate the outcome of a game.

In Rock-Paper-Scissors, each player chooses their action at the same time, so there is no opportunity for me to know what you are going to choose before making my own choice. I simply responded to your move with the action that would win based on the rules of the game.

Let's play again and see what happens!

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by zamnos on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:43PM (#35390486)
ahahaha those are great. Thank you! it gives me ideas on what other things to try and makes me feel less obsolete.

sumplete (https://sumplete.com/about/) really blows my mind, so it's nice to see some of the limitations of the system

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by RuthlessCheater on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:05AM (#35385788)
LLMs are revolutionary, but nowhere near passing the Turing test.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by melagonster on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:01AM (#35385743)
maybe when it say: sorry, I am a language model...
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by trinsic2 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:47AM (#35374606)
Lol. Perfect example of people getting overly concerned about this.

At the most it will disrupt our economy and industry in ways we can't begin to understand but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's going to destroy life. We will adapt an move on.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by peddling-brink on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:33PM (#35377104)
A superintelligence will look at us like we look at apes.

If you suddenly woke up on a planet of apes, and they asked you to handle all their important things, but kept you away from the sharp sticks so you couldn’t suddenly take over, how long until you run the planet?

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by RuthlessCheater on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:07AM (#35385810)
LLMs currently are a far, far way away from "superintelligence"
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by peddling-brink on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:24PM (#35390174)
Clearly true. But they are approaching what could be considered general intelligence.

I am not an AI researcher, but it seems that one of the major features they lack is a significant context window.

They can reason, but they lack the ability to plan long term. When will that "feature" be added? Who will stop the tinkerer from putting these pieces together? Nobody, because it will be incredibly profitable.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by johnmaguire on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:34PM (#35378480)
Can't drive a car... or can't drive a car safely?

A bit tongue in cheek, but the point I'm making is that AI doesn't need to necessarily do things _well_ to cause a lot of damage.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:17AM (#35371463)
You don't need a superintelligence to get people to do stupid shit. GPS systems that told drivers to turn into a river worked just fine with barely any intelligence at all.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by nradov on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:26AM (#35372348)
Nuclear launch systems are physically separated (air gap). How exactly would a computer gain access?
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by rtontic on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:36AM (#35372474)
Hm, maybe a Boston dynamics robot could drop a USB in front of NORAD?
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by CatWChainsaw on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:59AM (#35494546)
No need, just hijack their Uber Eats order. Apparently delivery people can walk right in and find soldiers napping on the job.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by chasd00 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:45AM (#35372617)
The risk is relying on AI to give a human information on whether or not to push the button and the AI gets it wrong but communicates so effectively the human trusts it without question.

An AI learning about and then executing a social engineering attack on a human (whether with malicious intent or not) seems like a reasonable thign to be worried about to me.

Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by nradov on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:17AM (#35373059)
Initiating a nuclear strike requires sending authentication codes via designated secure channels. No matter how good some hypothetical future AI gets at impersonating President Biden, it won't be able to ring up the duty officer at Minot Air Force Base and order them to nuke Moscow. Don't believe what you see in the movies.
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by felipemnoa on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:00AM (#35373662)
I don't know, I'm pretty sure some future AI is up for the challenge. I can almost picture an AI telling another AI, hold my beer...
Re:Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday March 30, 2023 @05:04PM (#35378803)
imagine instead just making it look like someone is attacking you

such incidents stemming from human error have already gotten us close to responding with force