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Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by ThePhysicist on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:16PM (#35294092)
This might be a trope here, but recently I noticed that the quality of search results has degraded quite a bit for me. When I e.g. search for Golang-related content (often I want just the official docs of a module like net/http) I get all these developer-focused, SEO-optimized blogs that are kind of helpful but often not, and I have to scroll all the way down to get the official docs. I really wonder if that has to do with AI-generated content becoming more ubiquitous.

I have to say I really dislike all these developer-focused publications, with a few notable exceptions. Most of them just write very shallow articles copied almost 1:1 from the official docs, and don't even take care to update their content when stuff changes. I just don't get why Google wouldn't hand-curate search results like for the Golang standard library or any popular framework and make sure the official docs land on top of the list.

So, long story short that's definitely an area where ChatGPT will replace Google, if it stays as affordable as it is. Today I e.g. asked it about a decorator-style problem I had in Golang and if there was a solution that could do away with using the "reflect" package and would instead use generics, and sure enough it came up with something that worked brilliantly, tailored exactly to my use case. For me, that is the future of learning about software code (and many other things as well). For publishers probably not so great as people might not go to their sites at all anymore, so I expect a strong upwards trend in anti-automation measures.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by tifadg1 on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:41PM (#35294400)
I now only google when I need to sometimes verify that what chatgpt is suggesting isn't BS and I'm immediately reminded that google is barely better between SEO content farms, SEO SO scrappers, legacy information from 10 years ago. And that's with ads blocked.

Between chatgpt+ for general guidelines and copilot for specific implementation details, programming feels very fun and alive. And I'm very skeptical to subscribing, but chatgpt provides so much mental relief getting some answers immediately that I'm ecstatic being able to use/pay for it.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by fdgsdfogijq on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:00PM (#35294631)
I still cant believe google thought they could ruin the internet like that and continue to dominate search
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by ImaCake on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:01PM (#35297922)
To be fair, it has worked well for them for at least half a decade. It’s only now they are paying the price.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by apercu on Saturday March 25, 2023 @08:07AM (#35301843)
Greed is a hell of a drug.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by dmix on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:36PM (#35295082)
The response speed of GPT isn't fast enough for me to want to use it like Google. Even with plus.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by myko on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:58PM (#35295386)
The response speed of Bard is much better in my experimentation. The creativity of the output on Bard is lacking, though.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by kif on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:24PM (#35295771)
I've found Bard to be very responsive too. Though you could argue it's not getting the same amount of traffic ChatGPT is.

That said, I don't expect Google to rest on its laurels. Sure, OpenAI is executing swiftly these days, but I think they've been prepared far too long for this. I expect Bard to become much better very soon... then will the AI wars truly begin.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by dmix on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:21PM (#35295733)
That's good to hear. I was concerned it might just be a hard limitation in the early days, tech wise.

Can Bard output quality code like GPT? I'm in Canada so couldn't use Bard sadly.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by kif on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:35PM (#35295916)
If you ask it to "write code to do X", then it will say that it can't write code. I think this was hardcoded.

But I asked Bard: "Can you implement fibonacci in Go", and it outputted valid code. And then I asked it "what if I wanted to avoid recursion", to which it replied with valid Go code that used a for loop. But it also suggested me another very bogus way of doing it, by using a "function pointer", which was very bad. F(x) would output x.

So, don't expect ChatGPT level of quality just yet, but I think it will get there pretty fast.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by hombre_fatal on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:13PM (#35296399)
Even though Google returns results instantly, for most things I still have to evaluate and click links and skim them for the information I want. Sometimes I have to do multiple searches (like one for retinol and another for beta-carotene in the following example).

Yesterday I heard about retinol (vitamin A) mentioned in a nutrition podcast. I know carrots are high in vitamin A, but I didn't think they had retinol, so I wanted to learn more about that.

I whipped out my phone and asked GPT-3 "retinol vs. the vitamin A in carrots" (something I know you usually can't ask Google).

A few seconds later, I learned that retinol is vitamin A's final form in the body, thus you get it directly from animal products, and beta-carotene—found in plants—is a precursor to retinol in the body.

I do these kinds of searches all day. One thing faster about GPT as well is that I don't have to consider the "query engineering" to make Google return what I want, I just ask GPT a question streamed from my consciousness.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by dmix on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:06PM (#35297411)
Yeah for questions with absolute answers that can be summarized like that it's perfect. Basically what Wolfram Alpha offered with quant data.

Although my partner is a lawyer and she sometimes asks it to summarize cases (without providing the full source material manually) and it sometimes invents entire details in the cases in a very persuasive way. So you always have to be careful and double check if it's important.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by grog454 on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:30PM (#35298169)
Code and case summaries couldn't be much different. With code you get compile time validation, run time validation, (hopefully) test validation, and you can generally look at a block of code and say "seems like this should work" or "this makes no sense". You get none of that with facts of a case.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by blueblimp on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:38PM (#35296629)
SEO garbage is such a problem these days that, if I were Google, more than using AI as a new frontend for search, I'd be trying to find a way to use it to defeat SEO.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by nikau on Friday March 24, 2023 @09:12PM (#35298024)
OpenAI should sell a feed of AI generated responses for search engines to consume and flag AI generated content.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by Edes on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:38PM (#35298669)
SEO for AI will be worse. Their output is a probabilistic distribution conditioned on the text is has read, so you can place text that heavily biases the output. Usually figuring out what this is can be kind of hard, but since OpenAI lets you query GPT-4 for credits, you can just mine what these special phrases are.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by nswest23 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @12:35PM (#35304306)
just wait till chatGPT starts including ads in results.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by Eddy_Viscosity2 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @01:12PM (#35304743)
not just 'including', but 'integrating'. A chill ran down me when I read this and realized the awful inevitable truth of it.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by spoiler on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:33PM (#35294310)
I know what you mean, and it's kinda annoying. I often click the blog links knowing I'll probably be disappointed when I see they're certain sites. Personally hosted blogs tend to be a bit better.

I wish they added some kind of categorised search. So you can add "+documentation" or "+blog" to at least narrow it down if you know what you're looking for but can't remember the URL

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by magicalist on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:12PM (#35296379)
They used to have blog search and it was crushing when they dropped it. I'm sure usage was low, but the few visits blogs got from that mode presumably dropped off the earth after that. Surely identifying personal blogs and the UX cost (tucked away in the Tools menu) couldn't have been too costly.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by rcme on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:28PM (#35294250)
My personal opinion is that this has nothing to do with SEO. All those developer-focused blogs serve Google ads, while the official Go documentation does not. Google is trying to boost revenue by promoting results with ads.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by epistasis on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:13PM (#35294804)
This is exactly it. Google is trying to get people to stay on the pages they click, and they optimize for this behavior, not for utility or for quickly accessing information.

If you go to a page and immediately find what you are looking for, Google interprets that as failure.

This is why Bing and AI based search can completely beat Google web search, because they are trying to serve the searcher rather than serve ads.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by jocaal on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:24PM (#35294942)
The problem AI search has is monetization, openAI can't run gpu server farms to serve 100M customers for free forever. This was a problem that plagued early google as well, sergey and larry were against using ads for monetization, but in the end that i what drove the business to profitability
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by cutemonster on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:19PM (#35295696)
I wonder if AI search could be sth consumers would happily pay a tiny bit for
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by danielbln on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:23PM (#35297050)
They wouldn't pay for AI search, but might for AI that also searches.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by anonylizard on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:24PM (#35297584)
I don't get where this "Everything must be free+ads' mentality comes from. Netflix thrived for a decade using subscriptions, Microsoft and Apple's businesses are primarily subscription based.

AIs are so extremely useful to some users, that they'll gladly pay $$ per month to use it. And the size of 'some' increases radically with each leap in AI's capabilities.

GPTs don't have to be gimped to just search. Even GPT-4 today with wolfram alpha can obliterate most low-level tutors. It will be a personal tutor, therapist, coding assistant, secretary, storyteller, entertainer all in one very soon. People will pay for it.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by sizzle on Saturday March 25, 2023 @12:20AM (#35299336)
sth?
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by ukuina on Saturday March 25, 2023 @01:19AM (#35299705)
"Something", perhaps.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by cutemonster on Saturday March 25, 2023 @05:47PM (#35307783)
Yes :-)
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by Sai_ on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:25PM (#35294947)
…for now.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by kweingar on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:46PM (#35296708)
AI search seems to have similar dynamics to traditional search. The people writing the stuff you’re searching for need to make money. (For example, AI doesn’t magically know about real-world events. It needs a human being to write about it.) Then the company offering the search product needs to make money too.

If you compensate sites for using their data in your AI product, then there will be the same incentives as now to game the system (AISEO?)

If you don’t compensate sites, then they’re not incentivized to produce the content that makes your search product useful.

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by yongjik on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:54PM (#35295318)
I still find it hard to believe. I've been at Google until 2015, which was a long time ago, but at that time the separation between Search and Ads was considered near sacred. Ads representatives couldn't even ask "Hey, my customer asked why their site is below this other irrelevant site for this query, this seems like a bug in search ranking..."

Pretty much everybody understood that we will lose in the long term, if we let ad revenue even be a consideration in search ranking. (...which makes today's bad search experiences even more puzzling.)

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by aix1 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:04AM (#35299939)
I'm in neither Search nor Ads, but have been at Google long enough to have seen the massive change in internal culture between 2015 and the present day. I don't want to speculate on any specifics, but it's pretty clear to me that we shouldn't be applying 2015-era logic or perceptions to today's Google and expecting them to hold.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by xyzzyz on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:59PM (#35330000)
I joined in 2014 and left in 2019, and it was much different company by the end. My wife still works there, and she tells me it is different still from since when I left.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by ipaddr on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:54PM (#35295323)
Developer focused blogs rarely show google ads. Upsells to saas like fly.io are more common
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by shp0ngle on Friday March 24, 2023 @06:07PM (#35296319)
I just don't think this is true. I just think Google has become actually bad at search, and there is no malice.

The problem with SEO spam was always there (remember expert sex change?) but they beat it before... but now it became bad again.

But they have monopoly anyway (bing is even worse for actually searching, ddg is just bing, brave search sucks) so they don't really care. What are you gonna do, use Ask.com?

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by Yiin on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:19PM (#35297536)
pay for kagi.com, although that's not an option for >99% of internet users.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by whatshisface on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:43PM (#35294428)
I guess the problem is that Google doesn't have a metric for "clicked, wasted ten minutes, and was annoyed."
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by nosianu on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:26PM (#35294960)
I think you could actually get them to accept a new strategy with open arms, where everybody needs to have some Google watcher process installed that checks and reports back what you do with the search results (I don't think unless the target website imports Google JS scripts too it can't track any more?) and more specifically, your body reaction to see how you feel. "It's necessary for better search results!"
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by cronix on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:27PM (#35295822)
Right, they just care about the 10 minute captive audience bit and how many ads they displayed in that time.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by carlosjobim on Friday March 24, 2023 @08:36PM (#35297694)
They could have let Chrome users rank any page they're browsing to get quality feedback. The installed base is massive.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by pers0n on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:21PM (#35298527)
That would just be gamed like everything else. Downvote the competition, pay SEO folks to rank your stuff high, etc
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by carlosjobim on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:26PM (#35298574)
It would be quite costly to pay millions of people to do your bidding when you're competing against millions of real users.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by thequadehunter on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:09PM (#35294759)
This has been my thing too. I work in Networking and sometimes I see interesting stuff, but between cisco's beefy docs and obscure blogs I have no idea what the actual use case for it, or how the SD-WAN magic wand does the thing. ChatGPT will get me to verifiable information so fast, and give great in-context examples. It's renewed my passion for the field just when it was getting dull.
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by tornato7 on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:33PM (#35295041)
Did ChatGPT really write Go code with generics for you? Last time I fed it some code that implements generics it said, "this is invalid syntax, Go does not support generics" which would make sense since the knowledge cutoff date is 2021
Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by senko on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:28PM (#35297086)
> I get all these developer-focused, SEO-optimized blogs that are kind of helpful but often not, and I have to scroll all the way down to get the official docs. I really wonder if that has to do with AI-generated content becoming more ubiquitous

No. There's a cottage industry of content writers that just churn out this stuff by the bucket.

I have tried to hire writers in the past that should've been niche experts but just regurgitated content like this, and had SEO experts trying to convince me that we should actually aim for low quality because higher-quality articles will be too dense for people. (both contractors got the boot and the "content" went into the bin)

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by OOPMan on Friday March 24, 2023 @10:36PM (#35298639)
I'm confused.

Surely ChatGPT, etc have been trained on content from these very same SEO optimisation hellholes you're talking about if it was trained by scraping the web?

Is there some trick that allows it to determine whether the content it's being trained on is SEO garbage?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like all you're getting is an amalgam of SEO content feed to you by a bot...

Re:Bing sees 15.8% boost in visits following GPT-4 push, as ... by Mizoguchi on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:44PM (#35299098)
Not an expert but one of the datasets used to train OpenAI GPT is Common Crawl and they use Harmonic Centrality not PageRank.

https://www.searchenginejournal.com/harmonic-centrality-page...