I am not saying that those are true or that I agree with them, but those seem to be the typical arguments.
Not sure it's just kids
I was an adult who thought drinking coke was normal. Now I drink water.
China can access some target in the US who is on tictok and get their realtime location.
Know anyone that uses AliExpress? Or plays Genshin Impact?
1. China banned Facebook after it refused to cooperate with law enforcement following the Urumqi riots. Google and others decided the cost of following censorship laws was too high compared to the return and decided to retreat. Other American tech giants like Microsoft, Apple and IBM have a presence in China. However unjust China's laws may be, there's a qualitative differences between applying it to all companies in the same way vs. what the US is attempting to do with TikTok.
2. From an American point of view, this strikes true. For the rest of the world there's hardly a difference. If any, the US has proved it is willing to enforce its will globally against non-citizens with all means possible (see fe. Julian Assange).
3. Youtubes algorithm is strongly driven by controversy, Instagram seems to be responsible for a large amount of body dismorphia and depression in young people. I'm all for more research and stricter policies to suppress this, but just claiming things without a shred of evidence isn't helping the discussion along.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/22/1165249928/tiktok-congress-he...
Their head lobbyist (Michael Beckerman) was seated right behind the CEO during testimony. He leads their government relations office in DC.
The concern is that although you live in Canada, US, Europe; you can still be "arrested" by Chinese police working in hidden police departments in the Canada, US, and Europe [2]. And TikTok will tell them where you are. From the second article: FBI director Christopher Wray told a US Senate hearing in November that attempts by China to set up a police presence on US soil "violates sovereignty and circumvents standard judicial and law enforcement cooperation processes".
[1] http://www.npc.gov.cn/npc/c30834/201806/483221713dac4f31bda7... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64909560
https://freedomhouse.org/report/transnational-repression/chi...
Power can be used without needing to publicly arrest someone
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-by...
(Probably the only silver lining of this geopolitical “competition” right now.)
That belief has to ultimately be a statement of faith. It is basically counting on highly untrustworthy people behaving honestly - they probably aren't. And all the elements of the system are hidden where there is no accountability.
It is just a fact that Google and the US intelligence apparatus are more invasive than TickTok and the Chinese. The former combo spy and conspire against almost literally the range of Trump to Afghan goat herders. TickTok can compete with that, but it can't exceed it.
If I could pick one, I'd feel much safer being spied on the Chinese than the Americans. They've got much less ability to make my life hell. Look at how far Snowden had to run, and how Assange never ran far enough.
This isn't a fact, and that people pretend that it is is a strange contortion of reality that I'm really struggling to understand. CCP is actively using a vast state-sponsored surveillance apparatus to do things like build actual (not imagined) concentration camps. And your reaction to these facts is to imagine that the American state's reaction to its secrets being exposed - regardless of how noble that action was - is the same thing. It's clearly not. For your comparison to be worthwhile, you have to pretend that CIA and NSA are co-owners of Meta and Google and have the means to use it to move elections and public opinion (foreign and domestic) in the way the American regime wants. Is this what you're claiming?
But it is coming. We know the US regularly heads out to topple foreign governments. It just isn't plausible that they'd ignore the influence of US social media companies when they do that. Certainly I think India and the EU would have to be a bit crazy to give Facebook & friends free access to their population. I expect there is a faction at Google who have Modi voodoo dolls on hand.
> It's clearly not.
I have no doubt it is clear to you, but the term for that is 'bias'. If you are in a Western country, you're probably safer with TikTok because it is less influential than the US media companies and the Chinese spying and renditioning apparatus is less sophisticated. China are also much more passive (not exactly by choice, it must be said) and won't use the data for targeting missile strikes on your military leaders.
The experience that some Americans have, perhaps those who work in technology in particular, can make you fairly hostile to all of the above. I'm not denying that CIA or NSA or the US State Department use Meta or other social media systems to influence elections or governments abroad. I'm making two specific observations: 1) CIA/NSA are not part owners in those companies, and that's a very significant difference from how TikTok exists, where Bytedance is a CCP controlled organization and is part owner in the subsidiary that operates in the US; and 2) My hostility to TikTok is an extension of my hostility to Meta et al.
Eventually our discussion will horseshoe and we'll end up saying basically the same thing. These companies are all terrible, but the specific defense of TikTok will remain bizarre to me, because when you admit that Facebook can influence or tip elections you have to also admit that TikTok can do this too. And it's reasonable to ban it because it's controlled by a power that has publicly stated it wishes to harm the United States.
>I have no doubt it is clear to you, but the term for that is 'bias'.
It is not "bias" to point out that there is a difference between putting dissenters in prison camps and what the US did to Assange. Both are bad, but to imagine these things as the same is a bridge too far for me.
Reproductive health laws and book bans in the USA notwithstanding. And we wonder why faith in institutions is plummeting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...
How many other extraordinary practices without a legal framework does the US government have?
Biden chose to have private intelligence groups monitor social media because they circumvent people's rights. What other rights do they abuse?
I'm genuinely trying to think of a good-faith argument for why Chinese tech firms are less trustworthy than American tech firms, but I honestly can't think of one.
But absolutely agreed -- as a user, I can't trust any of these governments or companies. The only things I do trust are E2EE services that don't collect unnecessary personal data in the first place.
I'm from the United States and I want this app banned. While the things you cite are or could be bad, it's entirely irrelevant to dealing with an app that is demonstrably a psychological control system. You're upset that CIA or US Army spec ops kidnapped people from your country? Imagine the United States injecting a social media system into your country that brainwashes people into thinking that they deserved it. TikTok can do this.
I agree with the poster before, I don't see the big difference here
You admit that social media is bad and increases suicide rates, yes? Okay great, seems logical then to ban the app that's run by a country that has set out to actively degrade the country the app is deployed in.
Here's how I know that TikTok is some sort of psyop: it's an entirely separate app in China. The algorithm does different things, explicitly. I don't know why people are so hostile to the idea that finally we've found a capitalistic company that should be punished for exploiting people. That Meta and Google behave badly is entirely irrelevant, and you and everyone else doing the same whataboutism dance knows it.
I honestly don't care. I don't use either and actively dislike all of these echo chambers. If it's for me ban all of them, or let them get even worse I don't care. It doesn't influence me at all.
But this is just a shitshow, cold war on a weird social level. This is not against tiktok this is obviously mainly a topic to talk bad about China.
Can you explain that a bit more? Of course it's going to behave differently. Any serious multinational is going to tailor their offerings to local preferences. A McDonald's in India sells a significantly different menu than one in Indiana. As for it being a seperate app rather than clicking a country flag during onboarding or whatever, I can see plenty of reasonable technical reasons for that.
I'd think they probably have even more freedom than most players to do so, because they didn't have to play to significant established brand expectations on arrival.
LOL! Please reread thus again until you lol too :D
Now what is an American company? Well, I don't really have a clue, companies certainly aren't patriotic citizens and we have no expectation of that even if they're entirely domestic... but once they're global? Well, then they can just jump their headquarters around to get the most advantageous tax laws and liability.
We should hold all social media companies to the same level of accountability because while TikTok might be openly cozy to the chinese government if you think any corporations are on the side of the American people I have a bridge to sell you.
https://prosperousamerica.org/ccp-takes-board-seat-at-byteda...
This whole thing is so strange. People in the US were so concerned about Russia running ads for a few thousand dollars in 2016 during the elections but are now ok with TikTok being controlled by CCP?
Honestly, I think this is refreshing. If anything, it's an acknowledgement that the info gathered and shared by social media to their respective governments is indeed, very useful.
Sure, it might be hypocritical. But it's a win, either way.
I think it'd be more productive for the US Congress to regulate the online space and the (ab)use of people's data/identity regardless of where the company is based in than to downright ban foreign companies. The latter seems rather... un-American.
If TikTok is “not a threat” then neither is Facebook and Google. End of story.
Its just bizzare to know that China bans those companies yet US allows Chinese social media companies to run in US.
It's not that simple. China has laws that US social media/search engine companies are not willing to follow but AFAICT TikTok abides by every US law that exists.
America cant keep its promises to its citizens and do what you are describing at the same time. It's now choosing the latter and chipping away at the former.
You should read the RESTRICT act that just passed.
"Never let a good crisis (real or manufactured) go to waste" always works on an amnesiatic society. At some point the pro-tiktok ban crowd will realize just how much of their 1st and 4th amendment rights they have lost.
Yes, Tik Tok developers are likely to use the algorithm to help defend the company.
> America cant keep its promises to its citizens and do what you are describing at the same time. It's now choosing the latter and chipping away at the former.
What specific promise are you referring to?
>1st and 4th amendment rights
Read the RESTRICT Act and tell me you honestly believe it isn't vague enough to be abused.
No one is claiming that America has "banned abortion" despite it's unavailable for 1/3 of American women, i.e. those living in the 11 states that have banned it[0].
[0] https://reproductiverights.org/abortion-illegal-11-states/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/taiwans-military-us-arms-...
1 America is the superpower
2 they want to destroy any and all competition
When powers clash things happen. See WW1. At least war is unlikely since both sides have nukes.