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Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by laluser on Friday February 24, 2023 @12:52PM (#34927425)
> Access to the model will be granted on a case-by-case basis to academic researchers. Non commercial license
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by svengrunner2049 on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:02PM (#34927578)
Microsoft and OpenAI, Google losing $100bn from a bad demo, layoffs, cost cutting pressure to innovate again... I feel the days of full openness in AI research from corporations are over.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by mochomocha on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:10PM (#34927697)
I think we indeed hit "peak open-source" for AI and there unfortunately won't be as much sharing in the coming years. When the economy is down, people and companies think more in "zero-sum-game". I hope to be proven wrong.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by somebodythere on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:17PM (#34927790)
The golden age of open-source AI is ahead of us. Open-source AI companies are being launched and funded. High quality, large, labeled data sets have never been more accessible, and scaling law plateaus means there is going to be a lot more momentum on data- and compute-optimization, meaning current SOTA models will start fitting on smaller and smaller hardware, down to commodity hardware.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by flangola7 on Friday February 24, 2023 @02:49PM (#34929157)
Until legislation clamps it down.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by Karunamon on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:02PM (#34929338)
At least in the United States, it's well established that code is protected by freedom of speech. https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2008/04/21-40
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by flangola7 on Friday February 24, 2023 @10:28PM (#34933545)
Yeah I don't expect that to last very long. Once it is discovered you can have an AI army that will tear apart any human force like tissue paper, AI will be classified and regulated as a WMD. They'll amend the Constitution if they have to, or get SCOTUS to do it for them.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by rnd0 on Saturday February 25, 2023 @02:26AM (#34934674)
Until recently, reproductive rights were well established too. Shit changes, yo.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by Karunamon on Sunday March 05, 2023 @12:27PM (#35031729)
This is why activist judiciaries inventing rights that plainly are not there (and in fact, supporters at the time understood that this was on shaky ground legally) are dangerous to rely on.

The situation here is not comparable.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:25PM (#34929613)
This. We already had discussions of 'attacks' on models based on public data sets so 'good sets' may soon become the thing to go after ( and suddenly data brokers may really want to up the prices of their sets ). We might actually see more privacy as a result as the data brokers will start charging a premium for clear sets.

Naturally, as predictions go, don't quote me on that. I was wrong before.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by yacine_ on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:15PM (#34927771)
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by rvz on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:54PM (#34928345)
This is what everyone needs to watch. It was Stability.ai that spooked OpenAI for disrupting DALLE-2 with a open-source AI model; Stable Diffusion. I am betting they are going to do it again for ChatGPT.

The endgame for this AI race is obvious and when it comes to AI models, open-source ones always disrupt fully closed source AI companies.

But first, we'll see which 'AI companies' will survive the lawsuits, regulations and fierce competition for funding.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by laluser on Friday February 24, 2023 @01:50PM (#34928292)
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by alfalfasprout on Friday February 24, 2023 @02:00PM (#34928436)
I wouldn't be remotely so quick to throw in the towel. ML research tends to operate in "jumps" and plateaus. At this point, the concepts behind the big LLMs are relatively well known and the bottleneck is cost of compute + cost of training data. Thing is, cost of compute keeps coming down.

OpenAI's "win" wasn't even so much in the research but in the design of ChatGPT as an interface. Its own model makes the same kinds of egregious mistakes as google and FB's own LLMs. Also, OpenAI was willing to just deal with the ethical fallout of releasing it into the wild with the ability to generate authoritative sounding falsehoods.

I suspect we're going to go back to a period soon where a lot of the innovation we're seeing is around interfaces and infra to make interacting with LLMs natural and applying them to product use cases where they make sense.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by simonh on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:11PM (#34929445)
I really don't blame OpenAI for ethical issues over opening up access to ChatGPT. They're not claiming it's responses are factually correct, and arguably by making it openly available they have done more than anyone else to raise awareness of the risks and limitations of LLMs. We need access to these things to make informed decisions of what are or are not appropriate uses.

Microsoft and Google are a different story, they're specifically pushing these as authoritative sources of information. If we hadn't had access to ChatGPT and the ability to learn it's ins and outs, it might have taken longer to expose so may of the flaws in the Microsoft and Google services.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by zht on Friday February 24, 2023 @08:22PM (#34932748)
What are they claiming regarding the correctness of the responses?
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by simonh on Friday February 24, 2023 @11:15PM (#34933836)
The OpenAI disclaimer is pretty comprehensive. Basically nothing.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by hackernewds on Friday February 24, 2023 @02:24PM (#34928790)
why does Yann LeCun advertise that it is open source then?
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by mertd on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:12PM (#34929458)
I assume you could train one like this provided that you bring your own training data and computing resources.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Friday February 24, 2023 @04:08PM (#34930166)
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Friday February 24, 2023 @04:55PM (#34930670)
It feels like open source as a term became obsolete(-ish). Is it open source (in spirit) if only the inference code is open source? I mean, technically it might be, but not being able to train it myself is basically against FSF's freedom 1 if you consider the model the software.

That repo is basically releasing a binary (the weights) and an open source runtime to run them.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by nazka on Friday February 24, 2023 @05:25PM (#34931008)
I agree… This is not open source. If you publish a wrapper that represent just 0.01% of your code and your product and hide all the rest as closed source that is considered open source now? Then any closed source providing an API become open source with this bogus definition. I guess now Windows is open source too, just miss the 99.99% of the rest of the code.

It’s absurd and it damages the open source world and its real definition.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Friday February 24, 2023 @05:33PM (#34931097)
No, this is open source. The model code and everything needed to verify their results is provided. No one promised the training code, and the training code is not needed to reproduce the results.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Friday February 24, 2023 @05:45PM (#34931244)
Going back to my original comment: if I release a giant binary blob (say, a Windows image) and an open source runtime to run it (say, VirtualBox), does that mean I can say Windows is open source? I don't think so, and to me it seems that this situation is a perfect parallel.

This is FSF's freedom 1: "The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this."

By that definition I don't think you can say this model is open source then.

You could say the inference code is open source, and that's technically true (and the only thing the repo claims TBH), but calling this open source AI model is misleading.

Open source inference code is outright uninteresting. It's a few hundred lines of glue code to run a giant binary blob which does the heavy lifting, i.e. the actual computing, i.e. the actual software, i.e. the software whose source we're actually interested in.

EDIT: Actually I just noticed they didn't even open source checkpoints+tokenizer.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Friday February 24, 2023 @07:18PM (#34932215)
Did you even look at the repo before commenting? The model code is literally open source: https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama/blob/main/llama/mo...

Even the checkpoints are provided - for free! All you have to do is ask.

Someone at Facebook spent a ton of money to train a state of the art model, open sourced the code and even provides checkpoints free of charge, and you still complain? The level of entitlement is off the charts…

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Friday February 24, 2023 @07:29PM (#34932301)
> All you have to do is ask.

That makes it literally not open source. Can I redistribute it freely? I don't think so, I might be wrong. If not, it's not open source.

> and you still complain?

But I don't complain about Facebook releasing it in whichever terms they want. I complain that people call it open source when it clearly isn't.

> The level of entitlement is off the charts…

How is pointing that it's not open source entitlement?

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Friday February 24, 2023 @07:53PM (#34932487)
Again, I have to point you to the repo code. Here’s the licence: https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

The model code is literally open source. Provided and licensed.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by throwaway1851 on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:48AM (#34935611)
The disconnect here is that the model code isn’t the important part. If you read the paper, LLaMA is all about the training data and the training process (which required a ”massive quantity” of compute, to quote the paper). Without releasing the significant part of their work, what are they really releasing?
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Saturday February 25, 2023 @09:46AM (#34937054)
Exactly - massive amount of compute required to reproduce the training process, and that’s why almost no one is going to try training this model from scratch. Most people will use this model as is, and a small number of people will finetune it on their own data - those people most likely already have their own training scripts, because finetuning is much easier than training from scratch and requires different hyper parameters.

I don’t know why they haven’t released the training code - I agree it would be nice if they did - but the important thing here is they created something valuable, open sourced it, and even provided model weights - for free. Let’s appreciate it.

Even if they did publish their training code - that’s not enough to train the model. You also need their dataset. Would you still claim “the model is not open source” because the dataset is not available?

Bottom line: the model has been open sourced. The training code hasn’t - and isn’t needed by most users of this model.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:39AM (#34937435)
> You also need their dataset.

With the training code you can fine tune the model with your own dataset, which exactly fits FSF's freedom 1.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by rnd0 on Saturday February 25, 2023 @02:29AM (#34934685)
>I might be wrong. If not, it's not open source.

It isn't "Free Software" if it doesn't allow for the four freedoms -including the right to modify and redistribute your modifications.

As a term, "open source" is ambiguous to almost having almost no actual meaning at all. But "Free Software" has a concrete meaning and if you can't redistribute something then it is not "Free Software".

Hope that helps.

Edit to add a citation: https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:37AM (#34935558)
I know what free software is. I meant the checkpoint might be redistributable after you ask for it (but I doubt so).

Open Source has a clear and specific definition BTW: https://opensource.org/osd/

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by homarp on Saturday February 25, 2023 @12:41AM (#34934221)
Would you say that Doom is not open source because the WAD are not freely available?
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by kaoD on Saturday February 25, 2023 @05:45AM (#34935593)
That's what I meant when I said the open source term kinda got obsolete. With AI the model is the program. I don't even have the training code or the checkpoint so I cannot modify it as the freedom 1 requires.

As I see it the weights are more similar to LLVM IR. It got "programmed" by gradient descent.

At most you can say the inference code is open source (see sibling thread).

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by p1esk on Saturday February 25, 2023 @10:28AM (#34937347)
The confusion here is about what constitutes a “model” - a model source code, model parameters, code to train the model, dataset used to train the model, code used to evaluate the performance of the model? I would probably say that the first two constitute a model. I agree that only the first one (model code) is strictly open source, while the second (model parameters) is not, because it’s not available to everyone.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by generalizations on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:07PM (#34929392)
Here's hoping someone with access puts it on bittorrent.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by 1letterunixname on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:29PM (#34929666)
DLP, overall architecture, and many more aspects put the kibosh on that.

The career risk isn't worth it especially when tech is deployed client- and network-side to detect just such exfil attempts. The average of network, security, and client management staff tend to be PEs (SREs) who can code, some have PhDs, and are the cream of what was previously organized as "corporate IT" world. So I fail to see any incentive to throw away their career and reputation by giving away IP for $0.

There's a metric s*ton of optimized hardware to generate models. And I have my doubts if Sama at OpenAI, even with 10 gigabucks from Microsoft, can sustain growth, organizational culture, and long-term investment at the scale others are bringing online with less trouble and more experience.

The future interaction will AI models will most likely be through an API because the models themselves are becoming too large to fit even on the most extreme DIY NAS solutions.

TL;DR: it's not happening.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by generalizations on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:45PM (#34929872)
> The future interaction will AI models will most likely be through an API because the models themselves are becoming too large to fit even on the most extreme DIY NAS solutions.

And yet I spent last night running GPT-J-6B on my desktop CPU at 2 tokens / sec. People are finally starting to optimize these models, and there's a ton of optimization to go. We'll definitely be running these locally in the next few years. This model especially looks like an ideal candidate for CPU optimization, given the pairity with GPT3, and that it's within spitting distance of the size of models like GPT-J-6B.

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by Hyption on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:57PM (#34930025)
There are plenty low paid students or working students or admins in-between.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by imranq on Friday February 24, 2023 @05:37PM (#34931155)
You can make small LLMs more performant than large ones like GPT-3 by fine-tuning on specific tasks or providing them tools to offload precise calculations:

e.g. Toolformer: https://arxiv.org/abs/2302.04761

which uses APIs and functions to improve GPT-J beyond GPT-3 for various tasks

Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by 1letterunixname on Friday February 24, 2023 @05:50PM (#34931303)
How dare you bring knowledge in here! Some people at work would be offended if they couldn't buy their A100 or DGX toys, or had to scale back their custom ASIC and systems R&D.
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by cma on Friday February 24, 2023 @03:35PM (#34929748)
Once it is out there it can be rehosted on the clear net since model weights can't be copyrighted (unless they intentionally over train on some copyrighted snippets they own maybe).
Re:Meta rolls out AI language model LLaMA by lsb on Friday March 03, 2023 @11:55AM (#35012083)